You cannot know whether you've managed to diminish a figure when you've got no baseline, by which I mean that by definition irregular/unauthorised migrants are uncountable in any direct way. Yes some researchers have come up with paradigms for counting, but I remain unconvinced. What one notices from 'outside' US debates is how heavily they obsess about the Mexican border, seemingly forgetting the permeability of borders that exist in air and sea ports. I do understand perfectly that the 'invasion from Mexico' is seen as most threatening, but it's wearing blinders not to realise that the false-papers industry makes entry through formal ports just as easy. You might be interested in my piece called 'Border Thinking' based on a typical airport experience: http://www.nodo50.org/Laura_Agustin/border-thinkingLaura Agustín

Eisenhower had it right about illegal immigration.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html
Every president from JFK thru GWBush (incl. McCain-Kennedy) had it wrong.Illegal immigration exacerbates the conflict of "citizens’ rights & responsibilities" vs "human rights & dignity".

The USA judicial system seems to get the two concepts confused.
Responsible population growth in the USA is a key component of opportunity for all.

If religious communities, the ACLU & the US chamber of commerce want to help illegals; perhaps they should spend more time & effort pushing their human rights agendas in Mexico & further south of the border.
If religious communities, the ACLU & the US chamber of commerce want to help USA citizens: perhaps they should sue “employers of illegals” for violating the rights of USA citizens.

There was a time when WASP Mayflower descendant types like our family felt that New England was forever changed by the mass immigrations from Quebec and Italy and Poland and Ireland and etc.  The Democratic Party in New England was a minority party. Franklin Pierce of NH was a Southern sympathizer. The Whigs morphed into the Republican party and the party of Lincoln and Emancipation and the Grand Army of the Republic.

Today, New England natives whose ancestors were Anglo-Saxon and go back to Puritan stock like myself are less than 2% of today's New Englanders. The Democratic Party invited the immigrants to use their party and turned it into the majority party.

I repeat. Born in 1946, I am 62. Today, Protestants marry Catholics. Even ethnic Catholics marry each other. It matters little what your race, ethnicity, religious denomination today in New England. It was not so when I was a youth or teenager.
We had our own parts of town, and our schools and churches and lives were separate. I consider this a wonderful change.

The Republicans developed quotas in the 1920's. The stated reasons were "noble" and speak to quality of life by limiting or controlling immigration, but the answer is that they did not want southern European Roman Catholics controlling the politics, economics and religious character of Yankee New England.

Regardless of the political issue, it seems always to be about US versus THEM.   I prefer WE THE PEOPLE.

“…each time pro-migrant advocates have compromised with the restrictionists, as he's proposing, they've gotten burned.  And that adopting the frame proposed by CIS and others is counterproductive in the long run, further ceding the terms of debate to them. “ I think you’ve got this right.  What we really need is for pro-migrant activists to start framing the terms of the debate for ourselves: that is, pushing for this as a human rights issue.  Obama talked about “bottom-up organizing”… we’ve seen how effective this can be.  Now, those of us in the pro-migrant movement need to start getting proactive about what it is we truly want. The Kennedy-McCain bill had some very unsavory aspects like tougher border enforcement, a guest worker program, etc.  In my view, that’s not a compassionate response to the issue of immigration. Do we really want to settle? You’ve blogged about Cynthia McKinney’s stance on immigration, which is the best platform I’ve seen. Let’s push for it.  We may not get everything we want, but we have to start taking a stand: the ICE raids have got to stop; policies that lead to the death and abuse of immigrants must end (migrants dying by the thousands in our deserts); the concentration-style detention centers should be shut down.  We should  take a stand on these issues and not capitulate just to get some kind of immigration bill passed.

I forgot to mention that I used to work in a company that was FINALLY closed for a few reasons in 2007, FDA violations were the main ones.  The bosses, who have since gone North to Canada, to see if they can hire illegals there I guess, as they did here, overwork them, pay them less, not withhold taxes (to those who did not want it withheld), and stop people like me from getting safety equipment for THEM so they would not inhale and work with dangerous, cancer, birth defect and child loss causing chemicals. So, I DO know quite a bit about the problem from BOTH sides.  In the end we need to make sure that AMERICAN'S rights and dreams are not being pushed aside for the rights of other hard working people from other countries.  

My position is that those who promote open borders and those who assist illegal aliens enter this sovereign country are as guilty as illegal immigrants.  They should face serious prison time!  You can't pick and choose those laws which you wish obey or ignore. Immigrants are welcome to the United States ..... but only after entering according to our laws.

This sovereign country, eh? Have you read the NAFTA accords or the CAFTA accords?

The "players" in this drama are the oppressors and the oppressed, and how they benefit from both sides of the border, and have done so since Jack Pershing left and PRI was put into power permanently to assure stability....until the drug lords took over.

Amazingly, Spain took most of the carbon resource wealth of the North American continent and lost it to an independence movement of plutocrats....much like the Anglo-Saxon plutocrats who established the USA. The "Mexican Wars" produced the states of CA, TX, NM and AZ (and the Gadsen (sic) Purchase).
Yet, the remaining parts of MX were still rich in oil and silver, so the few families who own and operate(d) Mexico like a private fiefdom with serfs were satisfied with the results. Google PRI sometime, and see the fine hand of the USA.

Hypocrisy often disguises shame...."Manifest Destiny" first meant to steal the land from the indigenous peoples, and then to fight the European "colonists and progeny" for the rest.

Mexican peasants used to be "content" to come to the US for the several harvests and return to Mexico. The borders were porous. Then, about two decades ago, the IMF called some notes, and the plutocrats lost the value of the peso. There were about 14 pesos to the dollar and it rose to thousands of pesos to the dollar. Today, it is the NEW PESO and it is pegged around 11 to the dollar....but it is a false reality.

The reason was PEMEX and the petroleum issues in MX as opposed to the old TX dominance of the resource. Then came the Reagan years and the Golden Border allowed General Electric, Ronnie's old employer, to make products on the Mexican border without all the rules and regulations of the USA.

Then, as you stated, the US corporations such as Tyson Foods and Pilgrim and George's and Peterson Farms operating in many   poultry states in GA and AR, went to the interior states of Mexico to bring workers to eviscerate chickens in their poultry processing plants at lower wages than the white indigenous underclass they continue to exploit. Clinton, the neolib, had his wife on the board of Tyson Foods and Wal-mart.

Both the Clinton and Bush administration had INS and now ICE do "showboat raids" where most undocumented persons were out with the "blue flu" on that day, forewarned. A few would be caught and deported. The Plutocrats are protected and will always be protected.

Whar part of the word ILLEGLE do you not understand?

Robin......you matter how you spell it, we have a more complex issue than you describe as ILLEGLE.....for until this immigration issue is solved to include anchor children with US citizenship under the law of "iuis soli" - then you have a solution with hooks.

No other country in the world, except the United States allows automatic citizenship to children born to anyone who is "visiting" this country.  Wake up folks!  Our sovereignty is under attack and it will take your individual involvement to stem this invasion.  Call, write or email your Congressional representatives. Freedom and liberty are lost simply by good men doing nothing.

USA IMMIGRATION POLICY=USA OVERPOPULATION.

OVERPOPULATION causes starvation, disease foreigner invasions and occupation, and of course, death.  These will be more familiar to religious people as the four horsemen of the apocalypse. 

It's time to end all immigration into the USA, and deport the illegals.  There's no SCIENTIFIC proof that the USA is underpopulated, and plenty of scientific evidence that it IS overpopulated. 
The government sells immigration by saying that we need immigration to pay the boomers' social security, but the boomers were the only generation to have fewer children than their parents because they didn't want their kids to inherit a country more overpopulated than they inherited.  The government betrayed the boomers by importing millions of immigrants and allowing millions more illegal ones--all who compete with the boomers kids and grandkids and will keep doing so until mankind is extinct.  Our water supplies are getting scarce, thanks to the huge number of immigrants using them, power is in short supply at times, open space is disappearing, our national parks and native ecosystems are abused and overused, all thanks to our government policy of overpopulation via immigration.  It's time citizens stood up and said, "No more immigrants--we're full up", and made our politicians hear it and stop the immigrant flood. 
Our govt., with the help of mainstream media, has been selling us immigration via sob stories about starving peoples of other lands, but they fail to tell us just exactly why those foreigners are starving--overpopulation--either by their own people, or by the people who are invading them.
Stop all immigration into the USA NOW and deport the illegals AND their kids!

I listen to Harvard-educated Lou Dobbs married to an Hispanic wife and think to myself...Ms. Bonfire speaks of Mexican "invaders" here to produce (children) causing a mass population growth to colonize America, and then I just exploded into laughter.

My ancestors came to these shores in 1620, and began the genocide of the indigenous "Indians" and that after they saved my ancestors' hides that first winter producing that Thanksgiving feast we just enjoyed.

Of course, Indians or Native Americans or as Canadians call them, First Peoples or Aboriginals, became " bloody savages" when they dared protect their land from invading Europeans whose purpose was to annihilate the Native American, and steal their lands.

The Spanish came before the English, and established FL and the states now called TX, NM, AZ, NV, CA, CO. After stealing all those lands from the Hispanic Oligarchs who overthrew their King as well, we even took the Gasden Purchase for a pittance an acre. The rest we bought from the French, the British and the Russians....and oh yes, the Spanish-American War and the Dole War.

Can you spell K A R M A ?

Instead of arguing over history, which I would come out as the winner seeing that Sawyers argument is taken off the Mexican invaders blueprint, I will just say this: America belongs to us the Americans. We should go by the "Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo" and not rub salt in old wounds. All those players are dead. By the way I am part Native American and todays tribes are negatively affected by the invasion. The Apaches have long been at battle with invading Mexicans. Not Karma just the same invasion that has been going on for hundreds of years.

Heinous crimes are committed by all sorts of people, not just illegal immigrants from Latin American countries.  Job loss is high, but not because of illegal immigrants.  It's convenient to blame people from Latin American countries for every problem that has occurred in the United States, but really, it's horribly flawed logic and produces a dangerous type of hysteria.  People like this seem to forget deportation hearings happen every day.

I am not an advocate of amnesty for everyone and anyone nor am I an advocate for deporting everyone who is here illegally or who has overstayed their visa, because believe or not, there are more than just Latin Americans who are here illegally...don't forget visa overstays and things of that nature.

I would like to see reform in the middle.  I would also like to see people who are anti-immigrant try to live in Mexico for a month with only 1000 pesos in their pockets and see how they hack it. 

While the US shouldn't try to fix Mexico's bad choices (or any other 3rd world or developing country's for that matter), the reality is that a significant amount US citizens or LPRs will not take jobs that are dirty, demanding, and somewhat demeaning, but there are people who come from other countries who WILL do that work and do it without complaining.  They know that being paid $7.00/hr to change filthy hotel linens for 10 hours a day, 6 days a week is better than most opportunities they would have in their home countries. 

People who are anti-immigrant should be thankful for those who clean up after them on their Ivy League college campuses, wash their cars, wash their dishes at 5 star restaurants, pick their fruits and vegetables because until those educated, upper class Americans decide they want to do that work and do it for low wages and long hours, someone else will have to do it for them. 

You wouldn't want to break a nail, now would you?

We need to have completely impermeable borders. Obama needs to finish the job started far too late by Bush. This is about security mostly. The people coming here are probably the same percentage decent human beings as the people already here,  whatever percent are not decent and law abiding need to be sent back! In reference to the number of people allowed in, we probably shoud base that on on U.S. unempolyment figures. If unemployment is 1 U.S. citizen or higher then obviously we don't need help.

Charlie....read what I shared with you in the Death Penalty thread. It applies here as well....since you seem to tangent in the same way here as there.

Charlie....the guys who remove professional jobs from Americans arrive on Air India and China Airlines 777 aircraft paid for by their governments- sitting in business class. The only way they get wet is when the business first class flight attendant gives them a warm towel before a free wet drink. The reason is that more and more of the Americans vying for these jobs are not graduating from graduate schools and if they do, want more money than the foreigners who do not have capitalist high interest school loans to repay. OK Charlie.....not everyone calls the eighth grade their senior year.

"No other country in the world, except the United States allows automatic citizenship to children born to anyone who is "visiting" this country."

This is false.  By this tally, 36 other countries subscribe to the principle of jus soli "birthright citizenship."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli#Specific_national_legislation

"I will just say this: America belongs to us the Americans. We should go by the "Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo" and not rub salt in old wounds."

In other words, if you can steal land and hold onto it long enough, then you should be exempt from challenge or even criticism.  Doesn't sound very respectful of the rule of law.

"Whar part of the word ILLEGLE do you not understand?"

Umm ...

Anti-folks, you're not representing your side of the debate very well.  Also, drive by cut and paste jobs and irrelevant rants will be (have been) deleted.  Go post them on ALIPAC, I don't want them cluttering up these threads.

Dave is an Advocate for 1 Nonprofit. Advocates have received at least 5 points from their actions, recruits, and dollars raised.   American Civil Liberties Union
now I get it!

No, I don't think you do.  Yes, I support the work of the ACLU.  Civil liberties--those things George Bush doesn't want you to have.  Some of us think they're important. 

Also, your freedom of speech isn't infringed by my deletion of a comment.  I don't work for the government.  This is a forum that has certain parameters for discussion, like any other.  You're fully welcome to post anti comments at anti blogs or forums.  Or even start your own blog.  I'm not stopping you from doing that.  You can even start your own social advocacy website ... I don't know, you could call it status-quo.org or reactionaries.org.  Commenters who show some commitment to the community here and a willingness to find common ground are less likely to have comments deleted, even if I disagree with their positions.

I guess that Brennion guy just let everybody know that he is deleting whatever he does not agree with or changing it?  Interesting.  I saw a great idea by Denise that I think Gordon liked too, and it was removed.  Anyway, I will write what I remember reading.  She said ANY CHILD BORN TO AN ILLEGAL ALIEN should not be given automatic citizenship and if we removed that crazy right in our country we could help curb the influx of at least a majority of illegals.  I happen to know, just as A. Lozano, that illegals also come in DAILY via ALL our airports.  That is how the terrorists who killed so many and attacked us on our soil came in.  Although many blame Latin people, most who know a lot about this problem know that people are sneaking in from everywhere.  We don't follow up with information given at the airport to make sure people have left when their visas run out, as they do in Denmark and other parts of Europe.  In Sweden, if you are from the US or anywhere else and you happen to give birth there, your child is NOT a Swede.  In the case of a female US citizen having a kid in Sweden, the newborn is considered a US citizen, (kind of like McCain born in Panama, a FACT), because the Mother is from the USA. 

I hope you are not mad at me for saying that Brennion guy, I read your article without seeing you were the author.  I think it is great that you are getting dialogue going but you may want to keep all ideas and sides on the table (unless there are curses or whatever).  It will create more hits, more discussion, and that IS what you want, no? Just a friendly comment.

As 'that Brennion guy,' what I am trying to say is that what you and Denise and Gordon and whoever migrated over here from ALIPAC or wherever may think is a great idea is not going to fly here.  Think of yourselves as having a higher bar to reach--you're not preaching to the choir, so what you say has to be more persuasive and more insightful than you may be used to.  I wouldn't presume to charge over to the ALIPAC boards and start blasting away, thinking everyone is going to lap up my words like Fancy Feast.  If I commented there, I would try to do so respectfully and attempt to make arguments that weren't so easily refuted.

I am not interested in having these threads overrun by restrictionists.  You have any number of other websites to formulate your plans to seal the borders and deport immigrant children, this need not be one of them.

On the principles of jus soli vs. jus sanguinus, many countries grant birthright citizenship, others don't, each country has its own reasons and historical context for that decision ... by persistently claiming otherwise, you seem intent on branding restrictionists everywhere as unread and parochial. 

"I think it is great that you are getting dialogue going but you may want to keep all ideas and sides on the table (unless there are curses or whatever).  It will create more hits, more discussion, and that IS what you want, no?"

Thank you for the advice.  I am certainly not opposed to having more traffic. 

But if there's one thing I've learned about the interwebs, it's that blog threads on a controversial topic like this need moderation or they grow wild--like a garden needs weeding if the plants (the dialogue) is going to survive.  So please don't take it personally if I delete comments, but keep in mind that this is a pro-migrant blog.  In my day job I'm an immigration lawyer, and I feel like I have a lot invested in this topic because of the ways I see my clients' lives impacted.  This isn't a hobby for me.  (And when I say "I have a lot invested," I work for a community nonprofit so I'm not exactly rolling in it.)

You may not be accustomed to unabashedly pro-migrant websites--I understand that we're still in the minority in terms of traffic and resources.  But ultimately, I am interested in moving towards positive immigration reform that a majority of Americans can support.  

Raymond, is it possible that people who disagree with you aren't stupid or eighth grade grads? Perhaps they just disagree? I believe that by way of dialogue we as a nation have reached many needed compromises, and have become a better nation. Yes I do tangent too much, I need to focus more, I am new to this whole blog idea, be patient please.

Yes we need to stop illegal immigration from any location that is what the majority of Americans want. We give in every 20 years to amnesty and birth right from illegals is a great harm to our Nation.
I have great respect for Americans where ever they came from. Many of my friends are from other countries who did it right. They deserve upmost respect... not criminals who do not belong here and use and abuse our Nation. Don't need to give respect to illegals due to lack of respect from them.

On another note I have been following up on the raids since last May and very pleased with the outcome. I have also faxed, called those responsible to let them know they are doing a great job. That includes Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

Mr. Bennion keep up the hard complex work assisting immigrants the Right way to achieve citizenship, yet pay attention that we Americans by majority are against illegals, and that is what is the aim.