Well, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

surely you know "LaRazza" means "The Race". Surely you know their own motto is "everything for the race, nothing outside the race".

I know that this is what NCLR's critics have falsely claimed about it.  If you can show me where NCLR made this claim, I'd like to know.  This is what NCLR actually says:

NCLR's critics falsely claim that the statement "Por La Raza todo, Fuera de La Raza nada," ["For the community everything, outside the community nothing"] is NCLR's motto. NCLR unequivocally rejects this statement, which is not and has never been the motto of any Latino organization.

http://www.nclr.org/section/reconquista/

And about the translation of "la raza" as "the race":

Many people incorrectly translate our name, "La Raza," as "the race." While it is true that one meaning of "raza" in Spanish is indeed "race," in Spanish, as in English and any other language, words can and do have multiple meanings. As noted in several online dictionaries, "La Raza" means "the people" or "the community." Translating our name as "the race" is not only inaccurate, it is factually incorrect. "Hispanic" is an ethnicity, not a race. As anyone who has ever met a Dominican American, Mexican American, or Spanish American can attest, Hispanics can be and are members of any and all races.

The term "La Raza" has its origins in early 20th century Latin American literature and translates into English most closely as "the people" or, according to some scholars, as "the Hispanic people of the New World." The term was coined by Mexican scholar José Vasconcelos to reflect the fact that the people of Latin America are a mixture of many of the world's races, cultures, and religions. Mistranslating "La Raza" to mean "the race" implies that it is a term meant to exclude others. In fact, the full term coined by Vasconcelos, "La Raza Cósmica," meaning the "cosmic people," was developed to reflect not purity but the mixture inherent in the Hispanic people. This is an inclusive concept, meaning that Hispanics share with all other peoples of the world a common heritage and destiny.

http://www.nclr.org/section/translation/

NCLR and PRLDEF aren't inherently leftist, just as Latin@s as a group in the U.S. are not inherently liberal.  But they are not receiving a very warm welcome in the GOP.  Turning that around starts with not mischaracterizing what Latin@ civil rights groups do and say.

Dave this would be believable if I had not seen them rioting in the streets carrying Mexican flags. If They want to be Americans riot in the streets carrying American flags! I do not think these people represent the bulk of Mexican immigrants. Immigrants come here to be Americans, and as a whole do a better job of being Americans than many people born here. The people of LaRazza want the U.S. to be Mexico part 2.

dood they weren't rioting in the streets, they were marching peacefully in the streets.  There's a difference.  They knew as did all the police monitoring them in every city they marched what every undocumented person knows: get arrested and you may well kiss your life in the U.S. goodbye.  That's why the 2006 marches were an act of incredible frustration and bravery.  And they were also nonviolent.

Also I doubt many of the undocumented workers who made up the bulk of the marchers are members of NCLR--they got together mainly thru talk radio, I am told (I pretty much missed the whole thing).  This statement: The people of LaRazza want the U.S. to be Mexico part 2 simply has no basis in fact but is parroted endlessly by right wing websites and talk radio. 

A fact is a fact.  That ain't a fact.

Charlie, I think you must be thinking of the annual May Day parades.  I have participated in a few of those, and I have never witnessed a single riot, nor have I even heard of one.  These are generally peaceful, celebratory events that go off without a hitch. I haven't witnessed so much as a single incident.  The only riots that occur happen afterwards when folks like Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity get their panties at the sight of Latinos and other immigrants coming together in a celebratory atmosphere.  Most of the flags I have seen at these events are AMERICAN flags.  You do see an occasional Mexican or Puerto Rican flag, but that is just a matter of pride in one's native culture, nothing more. In San Francisco, we have the yearly Festa Italiana parades and Saint Patrick's Day parties where people hang up their flags of Ireland and Italy, etc.  No one regards them as being less patriotic Americans for taking pride in their origins. Latinos are no different.  The whole point of the May Day festivities is a celebration of the American immigrant experience.  In fact, many of these new immigrants are far more patriotic than I will ever be (I'm not the type to wave flags...jingoism scares me).  Like every immigrant group of the past, Latinos just want to feel included in the American experience.  What is wrong with that, really?

*get their panties in a bunch

 Analisa, First of all Lisa, I love that "panties" expression. I used to hear it a couple of time a day from a now departed coworker and friend. What I saw was a very loud crowd, although the word "riot" was exaggeration. Membership to Our society is exactly what I want for them, but those were all Mexican flags I saw. I have six nationalities in My blood, My kids have eight. There is one flag flying in My yard. There were reasons My ancestors left those other countries.

Yeah, the "panties" expression is descriptive...a bit of a cliche, but funny nonetheless.  I'm glad we can agree on something, Charlie :-) 

"They" were rioting in the streets? Who? The NCLR? Somehow I doubt that.

By even bringing up Mexicans rioting in the streets in response to a refutation of your ignorant claims about NCLR, you demonstrate the irrationality of your position quite clearly.

NCLR is not a strictly Mexican group, anymore than "La Raza" refers only to Mexicans. It refers to all Latino peoples--who are diverse enough that they can hardly be classed as a single race.

Using the same (lack of) reasoning, you could as easily equate the NAACP to the black panthers, or a Muslim student group of your choosing to Al-Qaeda. Or your local Indian Casino to more radical elements of the american Indian movement. I'll leave it as an exercise that these are ridiculous things to do...

Bryan, thanks for schooling the ignorant on here.

I agree in part that this is about politics: http://immigration.change.org/blog/view/sotomayor_and_the_judicial_shell_game

But if the GOP were smart, they would challenge her nomination in a way that didn't alienate Latin@s.  They can't seem to help themselves, though.  It's going to hurt the party badly in the long run.

But if the GOP were smart, they would challenge her nomination in a way that didn't alienate Latin@s.

Isn't this what the GOP did today?

They can't seem to help themselves, though.  It's going to hurt the party badly in the long run.

This is but mere assumption, albeit probably not far from the truth in the sense of the majority of Latin@'s vote Democrat in elections anyway, but to assume the GOP will lose seats due to it is a long stretch to say the least. Numerous viable sources seem to counter your assumption that the GOP will lose more seats in the upcoming elections. Most state the numbers will probably remain the same, the biggest change will be dependent on the economy and who is blamed.

Today's hearings seemed to attack Pres Obama more than anything and if the GOP were to use Obama's own reasoning for denying the previous SCOTUS nominees, then as they say, Sotomayor would not be confirmed.

I have to give Dave credit for being extremely kind to the GOP in his estimation with future elections. Many insiders believe that there is a good chance that the GOP might lose Texas when Obama goes up for re-election. The Bush legacy is over. Honestly, I think the GOP might have blew it with those crazy Tea Partys when they announced they wanted to separate Texas from the US and if they elect someone that is too conservative in the primarys they are done.

I honestly think the problem is that the right of the Republican party is still in denial. They have these delusions that Obama is like "Jimmy Carter" and he will only stick around us for a 4 year term.

If they keep it up its going to take decades to make a comeback!

Since Obama has been President for almost 6 months now we could safely assume that it is official now that Bush really did mess up the economy. If we were picking up with significance you couldn't really give Obama credit for it because it is too soon to see any of his efforts kick in.

The stimilus pkg. is going to take time to kick in. I'm just hopeing that some of those jobs that he threw in there will kick the economy up so that they could cancel those detention contracts. One person suggested to me that one of the reason's why DHS hasn't cut back the prison's is because they would have to pull those contracts from the prison system and cut jobs. I know it has nothing to do with "the rule of law" when it comes to those prisons. It looks like ICE police have daily quotas and they keep shifting their strategys to find immigrants to detain.

Sometimes they look for immigrants in the workplace, then they go to mass transitt, airports or work in effort with local police...even sometimes they detain people fishing.

It's much like getting pulled over for a speeding ticket. If you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time you will be the "chosen one" to receive the speeding ticket to fill the quota of the day.

I just feel sorry for the poor Immigrant that gets to be the "chosen one" to fill the detention quota. I just wish they would shift that money to creating more mass transit or make more hybrid cars?? It makes sense to spend our taxdollars on something that would help us not tear our familys apart.

If we were picking up with significance you couldn't really give Obama credit for it because it is too soon to see any of his efforts kick in.

Who are you attempting to snowball?

You could rest assured that if the economy were picking up right now, the Democrats would be all over it, how they and their "Stimulus Package" were the right way to go and that they saved us from a depression/recession. So either way, you blame the GOP for all the ills. When does Obama and the Democrats become responsible for the continence of the recession or the worsening of it?

Don't worry Mary Poppins. We do not think Obama is anything like Carter. Carter did not put Us into a trillion deficit in His first six months in office.

You could rest assure that if the Economy had picked up by now the Republicans would be all over it because anyone with a brain knows that it takes a while for the "Stimulus Package" to kick in.

(When does Obama and the Democrats become responsible for the continence of the recession or the worsening of it?)

Obama becomes responsible between the second and third year of his term if there is any improvement in the economy.

I'm quite surprised Micro??? You seem awfully defensive when it comes to the GOP and their unsuccessful policys considering you are a Democrat. LOL

And Charlie I am sure you HOPE that Obama is a 4 year rookie like Carter but embrace yourself because you are living in a delusional state of mind.

Mary, for your information I have long ago (months) come to the conclusion that the Democrats are in power for 12 years. The Republicans failed to act like the conservatives They were elected to be and are now paying the price.

I should add, and so will Our grandchildrens' grandchildren.

You forget Mary, Conservatives and members of the GOP failed to vote yes on the Stimulus package, they all voted NO to it. Only Moderate and Progressive Dems voted for the Stimulus. You also forget how it was sold to the American People and the promises that came along with it. So you are saying Obama gets credit only if the economy picks up, but the GOP gets blamed either way? I'm not defending the GOP, I'm merely trying to get you to clarify your statements in regards to the economy. And sorry that I do not toe the Democrat party line like you seem to do, fiscally I do not agree with recent Democrat ideology, Socially, I agree with the Democratic beliefs. I am a Classical Liberal, an old-school Democrat, not progressive, conservative with some moderation. This may be a little to complex for you as you seem to somehow project that I am a traitor to the Democrat Party. Maybe you can understand this phrase, "I didn't cross the Democrat Party, it crossed me!"

 ("I didn't cross the Democrat Party, it crossed me!")

Micro, if you somehow have rationalized in your mind that the mess we are in has something to do with the Democratic Party crossing you I think you might have to wake up and realize not many people think like you.

Charlie, Our grandchildrens, grandchildren will not see another conservative like you in office again. We live in a global economy.

As usual Mary, comprehension is the key, sorry you fail to understand what it was I have actually said, I guess my typed words flail through your ears with no ring to them.

The Democrat Party has changed from when I regestired, I still believe in the beliefs of the Democrat Party of yesteryear, not the ideology of the Democrat Party of today.

When did you register Micro?? It must have been way before my time

Did you believe in George Wallace the Democrat of yesteryear or the George Wallace of Redemption??

Which ideology did you identify with??

As usual Mary, your "game" shows your ignornace. Your attempts to try to belittle me, discredit me, and to somehow paint me as a traitor in some way only shows your own insecurities. Game Over, next time try sticking to the points of the topic.

Great News in New Jersey! Republican canidate Criss Cristi just took a stand on Immigration Reform and he is on the pro-side on his platform.

Jon Corizine on the Democratic side is also on the pro-side of the platform.

This is great News for Immigration Reform. It shows that our candidates know if they oppose Immigration they are bound to lose votes at the polls.

It also shows that the GOP weighed it out and feel they have more to lose by sticking with that "Steve Lonegan" right winged base.

Chris Cristi has decided to ride the middle on his platform.

The GOP, and especially Pat Buchanan are so full of it. ALL of Judge Sotomayor's submission to the Senate Committee is available on line. If you take a look at the letter that she and 4 other Latinos sent to the President of Princeton University back in 1974 you will see her philosophy long before she was even in law school.

That philosophy is for even-handed treatment of everyone regardless of ethnicity, race, religion, etc. I will try to paste the relevant portion here:

In closing, we raise the issue to begin discussion and reevaluation that will prevent such

unfortunate actions in the future. As a start, we feel a definite policy on administrative

appointments should be set forth in writing. For instance, regarding student involvement, a

detailed policy on the area and extent of our involvement, should be delineated. Also, clear

channels should be established to ensure legitimate student input when it is sought. And finally,

concerning the appointment process, the procedure established should insure uniform treatment

of all candidates. A candidate’s background or the position he or she seeks to fill should be no

reasons for preferential treatment on the part of the university.

---- Letter to the Editor of the Daily Princetonian,

September 12, 1974.

Signed by Sonya Sotomayor, '76 and five other members of a student committee serving in an advisory capacity in a search for a new Dean of Student Affairs at Princeton.

Liquids Reign asks " since when is the government involved in manufacturing hybrid cars "?

The simple answer to that one is since it became the majority stockholder with my tax monies, in General Motors. Have a nice day.

That was a good one Hal....it couldn't have been better put then that. hehe

The simple answer to that one is since it became the majority stockholder with my tax monies, in General Motors.

One word - Bankruptcy.

Sorry, you lost your money and any stock you think you might have owned.

Race? As in La Raza? The bunny hop? Or could it be those bronze-skinned marathon runners who must negotiate the labyrinth of BP, dogs, drones, guns, lunatic Minutemen and Shawna Forde types, not to mention the arduous terrain of the desert? Is this the race that threatens you, Kurt?? Aayyyyiiii…. Guard the lettuce with your life!!! ;-)

This is what I like about you Mary, you put things in my comments that I have never said.

Maslow... Please show me where I stated I did not know who Maslow was, better yet show where you state it was a college thing I should know about and you then come back and recant your statement.

Show where it is the GOP or any faction of the GOP that is for the secessions. It is in fact peoples whom are Libertarian or Independents who push secessions. As for me being "crackers", strong words from someone who seems to be unable to comprehend what is being said and who's political ideals is all about blaming everybody else not aligned with ones self.

Obama has stated that the Stimulus is working as planned, yet we have lost more than 2M jobs, banks and credit are not being doled out to help the average person, small business are going out of business, people are still losing their homes, etc. So what exactly has been the benefit of the Stimulus?

I guess you are not the bright scholar you try to portray yourself to be.

Again, show where it is that I did not know whom Maslow is or his hierarchy, as you seem to be very confused in your own mind.

By the way, here's the link to your Maslow ramblings.

http://immigration.change.org/blog/view/how_immigrants_make_you_safer

Check your comprehension when you enter, and remember your the one enamered with Maslow, i only mention him as to where he came up in my classes and that he was only studied in Psych 101 whihc is not a mandated class. My exact comment is as follows:

Psychology 101 was not a mandated prerequisite for my degree. Maslow did come up in the classes I had to take for GE requirements though.

Posted by Liquids Reign on 07/08/2009 @ 08:44PM PT

Also Mary, you try to hard to attempt to discredit me in some way, this in turn directs the topic away from the discussion. Might I suggest you stick more to the points of the topic instead.

Geeez, You didn't have to get that upset over "Maslow"....its just a theory "a hierarchy of needs" that makes sense about...Why??? poor people might want to come into the US??

Ding Ding!!! Pavlov rings the bell again...and the dog salvates with insecurity. 

If you somehow think you are 'teasing' me by "leading me around" with fodder in an attempt to make me salavate, you are very mistaken. Your own ignorance is on display for all to see. Now I'll just sit here while you beckon me and you will become frustrated as I no longer heed you, as you are not my master. Maybe I'll just hike my leg and pee on your furniture or leave a nice mess on your floor for you to clean-up.

You have already left a mess on everyones furniture here in our country...that is why we are all here blogging. We our trying to clean it up. Unfortunately, you keep leaving your mess everywhere on the net and everyone is on to the fact that you are full of it.

Bravo!, Mary, Bravo!, You show your inability to reason with others views. In your world, only your view is the acceptable one, everyone else's is wrong and they are beneath your moral superiority.  You refuse to accept the unintended consequences that come with your choices, and in so doing attempt to belittle others that point that out.

As far as me being "full of it", remember I have the ability and the "choice" to leave my mess where it is I choose. Your only options are to live with it, clean it up by presenting factual information contradicting my "mess", or to just move out of the room.

Looks like you are going to have to move out of the room Micro! Pew poll shows 63% of Americans want to clean up the mess that your side made.

You can have your opinion Micro but you might want to wake-up and own of to the fact that the vast majority of people do not agree with your solutions.

Are governers race shows that the GOP is gently moving on the pro-side. Our liberal side has stood on the pro-side and the vast majority of people back it.

Again with the labeling of me Mary, I have stated before I am for the "legalization" of "Illegal Entrants" by way of granting them H-2A Visas. As for my solutions, it does seem that the vast majority agree with me.

As for your Gov's race, you have yet to cite Christies position and provide a link, or are you using what Crescitello (D) stated in his interview? Might I suggest you really look at Corzines (D) stance, and Crescitello's stance, and then once you provide Christies stance we can compare. He may be to the left of these two, but I bet not by much.

http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/jon_corzine.htm

http://www.njeminentdomain.com/MDR_Crescitello renews calls for local immigration.pdf

Corzine only seems to be for the DREAM Act, and is pretty much against everything else you want. Crescitello pretty much agres with me as for granting "legalization" with NO PATH to Citizenship. So, until you link to Chrities stance and points, you have only your rhetoric.

 Morristown Mayor Cresitello on Chris Christie: 'I think he was stupid'by George! Tuesday July 14, 2009, 7:57 PM

by George!Morristown Mayor Donald Cresitello

 Star-Ledger columnist Paul Mulshine asked Morristown Mayor Donald Cresitello, a Democrat, why GOP gubernatorial candidate Chris Christie staked a position to the left of him on illegal immigration.

"Because I think he was stupid," the Mayor told the columnist.

The Mayor, who lost in last month's Democratic primary, claimed vindication last week when the Obama administration selected Morristown to test a plan to deputize police as immigration officers. When the Mayor pushed for this program two years ago...

As I thought, you used Crescitello's interview. Now to the "left of Crescitello might mean Christie wants to grant drivers livcense's or that he may not want 287(g), or it may mean he wants a path to Citizenship, but as nobody seems to be able to link to what Christie has actually stated, and Christies stance, it really is a stretch of the imigination as to what you have stated.

I have heard on the inside of NJ politics that Chris Christie backs the Mccain/Kennedy Immigration reform bill. He is not liked by that "Lonegan" following that oppose immigration. I do not need to link anything here. He is also backing his opposition to abortion rights and gay bashing. He took it off his website. It was on his website the day before his nomination...and the day later he took it off his website.

The knights of Columbus freaked out. Alot of this is common sense. He hasn't taken positions yet on some issues. He has taken enough of a pro-immigration stand to please Hispanic Republicans and anger "right wingers" and that includes the abortion issue. He is taking a caculated position. If he wins he will not be a conservative governer.

If he would win he would be a "Arnold Shwatzenager" type governer.

Its not necessary to put up links when I hear news from inside politics in NJ.

All you really needed to do was read some articles about Christie to get his positions on most issues. I even gave you 3 clues about Christies positions on the issue of Immigration. Christie's positions seem to make him a Moderate Repub. (Bush Republican), while Corzines position seems to be that of a Conservative Dem. (Reagan Democrat).

The articles are not the latest news. What I get on the inside is hot before it hits the press. Christie is shifting on his positions.

Like I said if Christie is to win we have another "Arnold S" for NJ

If Corizine gets re-elected we have him in his second term and if he gets a few states to agree with him we might have drivers license's issued to immigrants in his second term.

Corizine is behind 7 points and after tommorrows rally with the 53,000 people that are confirmed to show up...Corizine is going to pick up significantly the next few weeks.

And where is it you think Crescitello got his information from, carrier pigeon? Looks like around 18K showed up due to moving from Rutgers to the PNC Art Center.  Corzine is behind by 10 - 13 points. You should be elated Christie is winning, you would have a better chance at getting "Illegal Immigrant" issues resolved.

(And where is it you think Crescitello got his information from, carrier pigeon?)

Insiders usually know what is happening in advance because they are on the inside of politics Micro. Of course Crescitello got the news from the inside of the Republican party before it hit the press unless the party has disowned him and it looks like he is on the outside when you read that article. Crescitello interview sounded like he was not prepared. It looks like Carrier pigeon flew over Crescitello a plopped one on him 2 minutes before that press interview. LOL

(Corzine is behind by 10 - 13 points)

Wrong! He was behind Christie 7 points the day before the Obama rally.

(Looks like around 18K)

Looked like a hell of alot more than 18K to me and when obama's flew over you should of heard the crowd cheer him on. Man...I have never seen anything like it. People are crazy about Obama. There were cars backed up all over the place and people who didn't have tickets that filled up the lawns in that hot sun. I had a nice seat close to the front and I have a few great videos that I filmed and some nice buttons and posters to add to my collection of stuff.

My oldest button I have is Eisenhower button but I also have a blue George McGovern/Shriver...I think it was 1972

Mary, you are being too kind to Micro. I had the rare experience, goaded by Mayor Ed Koch, of being on the welcoming committee , the " host committee " for the Republican National Convention here in NYC.

I can assure you that the creatures I met, who said they were Republicans, who came to welcome their blood brothers and sisters from all over the country, resembled the bar scene in Star Wars far more than they did middle America. It was a life experience, to be sure. And we were amply rewarded. My job was to staff the HQ telephones and turn away prospective volunteers who had been " trained " as I was, because we had so many we didn't have jobs for them. 

This is not a two, or even one party system. If you look at our State Senate, you will see that it is a NO party system. The party's over.

Wrong! He was behind Christie 7 points

Key word being "was".

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/14/poll-suggests-corzine-in-trouble/

A new poll of likely voters in New Jersey suggests that Republican gubernatorial candidate Chris Christie has a 12 point lead over sitting Gov. Jon Corzine.

....

Christie's 12 point edge is up slightly from a 10 point lead he held in a Quinnipiac poll conducted a month ago.

And from your very own NJ.com...

President Barack Obama's visit to New Jersey, to campaign for Democratic Gov. Jon S. Corzine, is coming just in time.

Corzine has fallen further behind Republican challenger Chris Christie in the latest public poll of likely voters released Tuesday, showing the incumbent governor trailing by 12 points.

The Quinnipiac University poll shows Christie leading 53 percent to 41 percent in a head-to-head face-off with Corzine; 6 percent are undecided. That compares to a 50-40 percent lead in the same survey last month, with 9 percent not sure who to support.

Would you like to keep arguing an inane point, or do you think you can argue the point I made in my earlier comment?

I will talk to my brother. He told me that polls showed a 7 point gap on July 14th. Wait around 2 weeks from now because I believe that the gap is going to start to close in now that the Democrats are rallying up their base. Are local Headquarters is being set up and the heart of the campaign is about to kick in so we will see what happens in a few weeks.

Pitiful smear campaign. Democracy Now devoted the whole hour to the confirmation hearings for Judge Sotomayor.  Here's what Jenny Rivera, Professor at the CUNY School of Law, had to say about the brouhaha over Sotomayor's affiliations with PRLDEF:

Her affiliation with the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund, you know, that attack on her sitting on that board for, I think it was, twelve years is, as I will say as not only a member of our society but as a lawyer, extremely troubling. You know, lawyers are encouraged to find a way to work, whether it’s pro bono or otherwise, on issues that help people who are indigent, but help create access and help to level the playing field. And so, those cases and the work of the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund has always been about access. So, although I anticipate that there may very well be questions related to that work, as well as her judicial record while on the bench, the reality is that that shouldn’t be an obstacle, and we should view that, again, as we heard some of the senators mention yesterday, as part of what we, as people in this country, should take pride in, that this attorney, at the beginning of her career, did this pro bono with the hope that the cases would end up creating access and indeed, I would argue, that the laws that were used during that time, both federal and state, anticipated exactly that kind of litigation, work that was focusing on anti-discrimination cases, opening up not only the courtroom, but the franchise, our schools and, you know, housing throughout the country, to all people, but especially Latinos and Puerto Ricans, who had been denied access for so long.

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/7/14/sessions

Just to clarify, Jenny Rivera made this comment during a report on the record of Jeff Sessions, which is interesting in itself.  Rivera served as a law clerk to Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor in 1993-94, when Sotomayor was a Manhattan federal court judge.

I've have great New Jersey news Analisa about the GOPs platform./

Great News in New Jersey Everyone! Republican canidate Criss Cristi just took a stand on Immigration Reform and he is on the pro-side on his platform.

Jon Corizine on the Democratic side is also on the pro-side of the platform.

This is great News for Immigration Reform. It shows that our candidates know if they oppose Immigration they are bound to lose votes at the polls.

It also shows that the GOP weighed it out and feel they have more to lose by sticking with that "Steve Lonegan" right winged base.

Chris Cristi has decided to ride the middle on his platform.

As you can see the GOP knows they have more to lose in New Jersey if they stick to the mean rhetoric against Immigrations and single out Latinos.

They have given up on the extreme "right wing" voter and decided to ride the middle.

Here is also an Article from an extreme "right winged" town called Morristown N.J.

I believe this is Chris Christie's home town "if I'm not mistaken" that has treated Immigrants badly.

Some of the right winged are obsessed with blogging all over the internet to make it look like more people are on their side then what polls show. This has always been a GOP strategy that as we can see the "Pew Poll" does not support their efforts. 63% are on the pro-side and that is a conservative figure.

Morristown immigrants fearful of new federal enforcement policy ... - Jul 14

Morristown immigrants fearful of new federal enforcement policy. by Tanya Drobness/ The Star-Ledger. Monday July 13, 2009, 6:47 PM ...
www.nj.com/news/.../morristown_immigrants_fearful.html - Cached - Similar -

I couldn't really put the link in but if you google you will find it fast.

Actually my link worked perfect!! As Mary Poppins says: Practice makes Perfect!! hehe

Take notice that all those bloggers are from that "strange little right winged anti-immigrant cult" and it looks like they just travel all over the internet.

I did try to set up an account to blog 2 times already but for some strange reason I can not get on there to blog???

Well, that is good news, Mary :-)  Just one caveat: I read the article you linked to, and I'm afraid that this is what we may end up with if we don't start making waves. To be honest, I'm a bit wary of both the Democrats' and the Republicans' approach to CIR because the rhetoric coming from both camps seems to indicate a punitive enforcement approach in exchange for "a path to citizenship" for the folks who are here.  I'm beginning to wonder if that's a worthwhile tradeoff.  Read Kai's piece (the latest post), and let me know your thoughts.

Hmmmm....What do I think after reading that? Well since it has been over 20 years for some of these people waiting for some kind of resolution on Immigration Reform...some kind of way to become a normal functional person in American society...I think??

I would take the rhetoric from both ends and try to exchange it for a "path to citizenship" for the folks who are here.."only if that meant they can file their papers inside the US and not have to leave the country to file and wait for years to come back in and deal with more immigration BS."

Once we have the bill passed we can then move on to civil rights and fight to make the laws even better.

Analisa....What did you think about Kai's piece? I am not so sure about it. You know that I figure they are going to have to tradeoff to get things to go forward. As frustrating as it seems..Obama will have to play politics to get it done. Immigration is not an easy issue but I do believe that we have to push...push...push the President and sign more petitions.

Also I was discussing blogging and the "right wingers" with friends and everyone knows on the inside that they go onto the blogs and make up various names. It is a sneaky campaign strategy that they have that they use to give an illusion that people are supporting them.

You can see the "Pew poll" results taken at 63% on the pro-side and then it does not match up with typical blogs that are dominated by negative comments. Take notice that the comments all have the same basic talking points over and over again and that there is never any real intelligent reasonable statements being made. Years back people were tricked by these bloggers but now days it has become transparent to the readers. As far as I see it...if these bloggers do not have a reasonable name and show a real "character" with some sort of a real description then you can not give credit to a post with a "nasty talking point" with the same old rhetoric. I am going to stick with what I have always thought....50 of the negative comments come from only a few people posting under different name to try to make themselves speak louder on the issue.

Good points, Mary. Immigrants have been waiting for far too long for CIR.  However, they also bear the brunt of the policy of "crimmigration": the detention centers, raids, 287(g) agreements, the  "war on immigrants" mentality, etc.  And the punitive enforcement rhetoric which is coming out of Washington appears to indicate that these policies will continue under whatever CIR agreement is negotiated.  I think this is what Kai and Duke are getting at.  Are we willing to quietly go along with these policies in exchange  legalization (equally punitive and difficult to achieve), or do we have the moral imagination and courage to frame the debate on our own terms? That is, when do we start questioning the whole basis of how immigrants are being treated under this system? (the gulag of detention centers, etc.) The punitive rhetoric engenders a "war against immigrants" mentality, and it first got its momentum under George W. Bush. Do we really want this to be institutionalized under CIR?  Why aren't the Dems speaking out on this more? As Nezua said, Who will give the Democrats a tough talk? Who will tell them that in order to rise above the well-entrenched practices of the Right, they will need to be daring, intelligent, and original? Who will assure them they possess the ability to be both honest and victorious?

Ultimately, I think it is up to the undocumented immigrants themselves.  Too often, politicians and mainstream organizations are out of touch with the people who are really hurting.  So, I would like to know hear from the immigrants themselves. What do they think about this approach to CIR? What about those who have suffered through indefinite detentions, deportations, raids?  Do they want more of the same?  Or should we think about challenging some of these drastic measures so that they don't become part of CIR bill? I thought Kai's piece was very thoughtful...that's why I wanted to share it with you and others.  I don't have answers really, just questions. 

Ultimately, I think it is for the immigrants themselves *to decide.

I think for the most part...that alot of the immigrants are unaware of the system and what is going on. If I wasn't reading all of Dave's articles I wouldn't know what 287g was. I just signed 2 petitions against it. One was to get rid of Sheriff Joe and I wrote more comments on the petition to get rid of the program in Morristown N.J.

Americans need to know what is going on!! It is scarey when we have "profit making prison contracts" nationwide. What will be next? Will our country start to find sneaky ways to detain its own citizens. When you mixed private industry with prisons you start to get innovative ways to arrest more people....or different groups. I'm freaked out over this "prisons for profit stuff." They know that if they blog rhetoric and throw stones at an undocumented group of people they can get away with this in-humane detention business. They know that it is easy to give Americans reasons to not like a group of Immigrants. It is easy to point the finger and blame a group on all the things that go wrong in America...but the truth is it is all for the profits of this prison business and an exploitation of cheap labor and that is it...it is nothing more than that.

After spending my afternoon at the Obama/Corizine rally I wondered what is going to happen after this governers race is over. My guess is that "although Corizine is behind in the poles" he is going to pull it off and win the election anyway. Will he work along with a few of the surrounding states and try to come up with a solution when it comes to Drivers license's and Immigrants. "We have a whole lot of Maryland license plates driving around in NJ." Does it make sense to have 500 Immigrants with their licenses registered under a Maryland address?...or would it make sense to have Immigrants go to driver school get a license and insurance?

Well Analisa those are some thoughts and I did get some great pics of Obama and a great video of the rally and I also did get a nice video of a Mariachi Band at Seaside on the Boardwalk while enjoying our favorite drink "Sangria"...and it was good.

Anyway, despite all our efforts to help move towards reform; I needed to lighten up,..enjoy that rollercoaster ride and let the ocean air pull out all this Immigration stress for a few hours; now I am back here again to join you on this cause with some purified thoughts and although you are on the otherside of this country our voices are being heard.

I think we need that ocean to suck up our "current" broken Immigration system and throw us back a brand new one and it needs to be more than just a "wave."

We need an Ocean to suck up our "current" broken Immigration system; throw us back a new one that is more than just a wave.

Charlie the governers race in NJ is a great example that shows you were reform is going.

Both candidates both Republican and Democrat have backed the pro-immigration reform platform.

I am talking about a small percentage of "right winged" candidates with a following that try to bring voters to the plate using immigration as a wedge issue.

The strategy has not worked. Anyone who oppose's a sensible solution's and uses them as mean rhetoric in campaigns loses the primary battle.

Anyone who wants to win an election knows they will lose votes if they use immigration as a wedge issue.

I agree with Mary.  I don't think that conservatives are necessarily anti-immigrant. But there's a small percentage who are very vocal, and, unfortunately, they appear to have highjacked the agenda of the Conservative Party.  But I don't think that all conservatives think like these folks.

In fact,  I have a conservative friend who is very pro immigrant, and he actually has a lot of empathy for immigrants, including folks who are undocumented.  He's a libertarian lawyer from Louisiana, and the only thing we have in common is that we both love to argue about politics. He hates the UN, is very pro gun, opposes any kind of government regulation, etc.  Still, he's a very likable and engaging person. I attended his wedding last year.  However, we don't see eye to eye on anything except the immigration issue.  For that, I would forgive him anything. 

You know, Dave has written a very persuasive piece on DMI blog in which he argues that the arrest and detention of undocumented immigrants is primarily motivated by political rather than national security goals. I'd be interested to know your thoughts about that, Charlie. Here's the link:

http://www.dmiblog.com/archives/2008/06/scapegoating_noncitizens_produ.html

OK Charlie, I don't want you to think that I am against Republicans. Some of my best buddies are Republicans. They are fiscally conservative but very kind when it comes to immigration reform, family values and they are lovely people.

I just wanted you to know that it is a small group that have dragged the GOP down by being unreasonable and radical on various issues but it is possible that the party could reorganize and you could be right that we might see another Republican president in 12 years.

We could see a that small radical part of the Republican party take over and lose the next election. Then the party will re-group and hopefully we will see a female President after 2 terms of Obama.

Well I am way ahead of the present and you know what they say: We take politics one day at a time because we can only predict what happens somewhat.

Thank you for being open-minded, Charlie. :-) I can certainly understand the POV of the individual or small business owner who is burdened by unnecessary red tape and government intrusions.  However, I strongly support government regulation of large corporations, because without it we inherit situations like the bailout.  The CEOs are using our hard-earned money as bonuses for themselves, not to lend to hard-working businessmen. So, without some regulation, you can expect to see more of these corporate bandits who just care about their profit margin.  They could care less about ordinary citizens like you and me. That said, I am not much more enamored with the Democrats than I am with Republicans...as far as I'm concerned, they both had a hand in creating this mess. (sigh)

Analisa, I agree but I never would have done any bailouts. Badly run companies should fail. it makes the survivors stronger. With bailouts losers were given an unfair advantage while driving citizens further in debt. (not a shot at "O", "W" was first to do it.

I thought this was a discussion about Sonia Sotomayor . . . . ?

To be honest, although I am happy to see more women and Latinas being considered for high-level positions in government, the fact that she has ruled for the government in 83 percent of immigration cases against the immigration plaintiff makes me somewhat sceptical about her appointment to SCOTUS. 

That is so sad Joan. I do not know why our country treats its own citizens like this. I can not believe that the US splits familys apart like this but it is true. There are so many horrible storys like your nationwide. I am so glad that you have voiced out. The way you and your husband have been treated is absolutely disgusting. It is a sad day when our country takes away the rights of its citizens to have a family.

This sounds like a very unfortunate situation.  What is the solution?  Perhaps if there were an agency available to people such as yourself to help with the paperwork and to make sure it was all in order before you approached the border, there would not be such unfortunate situations.  It must happen to alot of people.  I wonder what we can all do to get such an agency in place . . .

Wouldn't that be ideal. To bad it may never happen. If it were to come to fruition, I would like to get in on the ground floor.

Her number of overturned rulings is similar to that of her colleagues.  Also, one's sex and skin color do not determine qualifications, as seems to be your assumption.

Where in what I said do you get these assumptions?  I'm against anyone legislating from the bench, regardless of sex, color, or creed.  The duty of the supreme court is to uphold the Constitution, not to impose their desires on it.

What nonsense. Her rulings are seldom overturned and the one Jon Bankes must be alluding to is the Firefighters' decision. BTW, that decision was standard respect for settled law. The radical decision was the 5-4 one of the Court CHANGING the law. Judges are supposed to respect the current state of the law and she was acting conservatively, by upholding it. ( and BTW she is RIGHT and they are WRONG (SCOTUS)). The civil rights acts, the XIIIth amendment, and all other " affirmative " legislation was passed to remedy past discrimination. Yeah, in some cases  the white majority is injured. Too bad. The minorities of color and ethnicity were ALWAYS injured before that. And please remember that both major parties, and most of the mainstream Christian denominations supported and benefitted from slavery and " illegal " immigrants who harvest most of the fresh crops they eat, down to one minute ago.

Her rulings are seldom overturned and the one Jon Bankes must be alluding to is the Firefighters' decision.

Only 9 of her rulings have been appealed and gone on to SCOTUS. Of those 9, 8 were overturned by SCOTUS. This is the legal avenue, for the ruling to reach SCOTUS, someone somewhere had to believe something was amiss, and SCOTUS themselves decided to here the case.

I see Sotomayor's decision in the case of Ricci, as a half truth argument. The problem was that Sotomayor and those whom agreed with her on her panel did not correct the lower judge's ruling, but instead ran with it, giving it legs. The lower judge is the one who got it wrong in only ruling on "disparate impact" and not including "disparate treatment".  The Cities stance was that it "feared" a law suit.

"They stated that they feared a lawsuit over the test’s disparate impact on a protected minority."

And then you go off rambling about "plausible distinction".

Liquids beat me to the punch.  Of Sotomayor's rulings that have been brought before the supreme court, 80% of them have been overruled.

Cases usually get over ruled or reversed at the Supreme Court level. That is why they go to the Supreme Court in the first place. The purpose is to set a precedent. If the case did not have any merit, as per setting a precedent, and it did not appear the decision would be changed, then the Supreme court would not take it.

She wasn't playing god. She followed the letter of the law, and did the right thing in her ruling. If people want to find fault with someones decision about something, they're going to find fault, whether or not it's justified. You can't change the law, just because the outcome may not be ideal; that is why laws change over time, and why the Supreme court can interpret the law to set a new precedent; this is how the law can change. I believe Sonya Sotomayer will make an excellent Supreme Court justice. She is intelligent, has a great deal of experience, and really studies the cases to make sure she understands the law before she makes a ruling. I believe she would be fair and impartial.

I wonder if you would feel the same way in defending the action's of Sotomayor if it was a  brother or  nephew of your's affected by her ruling.

As far as Howdy Duty (i.e. President Obama) is concerned.

Since he took office the "Man of Change That They Could Believe In".

1.5 million American's (with children, elderly, disabled and pet's) who have lost their primary home's to foreclosure !

In my opinion. Lay off the cool aid that your church has been ladling out to you.

Sotomayor & Obama are Christian's in name only.

woa woa woa Minister Ciro, Howdy Duty? That was Bush. "Since he took office..." then blame everything Bush left him as  his fault. The guy is trying to help us, help you, and you have no gratitude. If you're a minister, I'll pray for those you spew your crap to.

yeah, like you really have any latino friends that buy your bull.

Where is this parallel universe? I grew up around Latinos and I dare you to say that to their faces.

Michael, I don't have to explain anything to you. I called someone on a lie. As to struggling with the language, that's funny, as I'm a writer for a living.

What do you do? Go around picking on little girls calling them communists? You don't even know what that means. Clear enough? Make sense?

Guess you didn't bother to read any of the links or quotes I posted in comments.

funny how all the people sticking up for Lou Dobbs and the racists inquision of the GOP on Sotomayor, they all say they didn't vote for Bush. What a bunch of liars. Just like the trolls on Huffington Post, they say they are dems, but have a problem with [insert dem agenda item here]. They must really think we are all a bunch of dummies.

Another good one they use alot is "most Americans believe...[insert talking point lie here]. These people have got to get a life rather than spend their "christian" hours lying for the devil.

Seems to me you and your like and your beloved bush and cheney have already done that for us, "wish you were a paladin".

If you are my ex, who was a vietnam vet, and used to use that name, I'll just s*it a brick. LOL :)

beloved bush and cheney??

You're the one who loves bush and cheney, not me.  I have always opposed those sleezebags and their reckless and unenforced immigration policies.

However, i find Lou Dobbs to be an honorable gentleman on the order of a Walter Cronkite. Someone who deeply cares about this country.  

It's a mistake for you to make assumptions abut whose idealology i support. 

Imigration = Lou Dobbs

Calling our president a liar = Lou Dobbs

Sticking up for Lou Dobbs = priceless

let me explain the obvious. You would be ticked too if Lou Dobbs went on and said your beloved George Bush was a cross dresser. If he said it with a straight face and tried to pass it off as truth and you knew it wasn't, you would be pissed off too. It's time for our media to be held accountable for facts and stop playing to people like you.

You mean he's NOT a cross-dresser? 

All she was saying , for the last time, was that if you can walk in her shoes, you would understand issues that affect Latinas and other minorities better than if you had been raised in a lily-white, country club setting and never seen the real world. Do you want your justices of the highest court to be ivory tower types, or types who can deal with the problems of real people?

White male judges have been saying a lot worse for over 200 years. Try the Dredd Scott Decision in the Court. Try the outrageous decisions in the Mormon cases ( if a group of adults wants to practice polygamy, what the HELL business is it of the government? The answer lies more in the non-separation of church and state here and property calculations under the Internal Revenue Code than in reason) where the Court invokes "Christianity". [its, not mine. ] Try all of the state Supreme Court judges who defended slavery and cited the bible as their references. Truly, the Devil can quote scripture.

Mark Lindley defends the man who "just thinks Obama should produce his original birth certificate"

If you think that's an innocent remark, there's a sucker born every minute. The thing is, he's too cowardly to express his own predjudice against Obama, so hides behind these nut jobs.

Oh, sorry, no offense to present company. NOT!

Mark, believe what you want, buy the good old white boys talking points if you want but don't expect all of us to keep explaining it to you.

Lou Dobbs is a coward hiding behind a birth certificate that he says "has questions". You wanna think that's an innocent comment? Go ahead, and good luck with that.

As to Supreme Court Justices, white men have ruled, and unfairly in some cases against race. So for you to feign outrage toward her comment is a joke. I don't care who you voted for, what you are promoting is what McCain started and the good old white boys used to punish Sotomayer with.

Yes, the white racism of the past was bad but what is happening in this country today is even worse just reading this blog.

That is a ridiculous thing to say but you're not the only one to say it.

http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/07/28/we-shall-overcompensate/

oh poor whitey, what will he do? Make up lies instead of looking into his heart and seeing that we are all connected and skin color means nothing. They make it an issue. It could be racial Karma. Whatever it is, it's clear that they don't like it one bit. One guy said "this country was built by white people who came here first." Ignorance.

Would appreciate if you could not use the term "whitey" as some of us here are white and don't think the term does much to advance the discussion.  I do agree that we are all connected and skin color means less than it once did.

We are all connected and skin color really does mean less than it once did.

In the Civil Rights for immigrants group that I am a part of their are all white people in that group defending Immigrants. So we have a multitude of people across the nation fighting for immigrant rights. We need more "bilingual" people in the group in my area to reach out to the Immigrant communities. To reach out on this issue we much show the truth that their is a multitude of people from all different backgrounds reaching out for Immigration Reform.

Somtimes I feel like there is a serious culture war out there I'm fighting in and it has not as much to do with "skin" but there are all of those "stereotypes" that we all have been conditioned to growing up. Those "stereotypes" and thoughts are fed by those "soundbites" designed to promote "hate" the opposing side like to manipulate to get the ultimate "votes", cheap labor and private prison contracts at the taxpapyers expense using Immigrants as their prey.

It is hard for all of us to overcome "stereotypes" and get passed our subconscious thoughts and inner fears....which is reminding me of the message of the movie I recommend "Crash."

If we recognize our thoughts that we have been brainwashed with through our upbringings in society then those repeat "negative soundbites" become transparent. That is when we take responsibility to reprogram ourselves and reverse these soundbites by creating "postive soundbites."

Ummm....that solves lots of problems for future generations!

aw come on you guys all knew what I meant. I'm referring to scared white supremists who are lashing out and use immigration as a platform to spread hate. The whitey I'm referring to is the good old boy K K K ers. I'm sure you aren't one of those scared white people, so why take offense?

Can't anyone get a bit casual in terms without it being picked apart? I'm white too, so lighten up!

you have validated my point. Done with pissing contest.

okay, Glen Beck, calm down. The bile you spew is putrid.

Only your raw unadulterated hatred for white peope of today for the sins of the past that they weren't even a part of and anyone who doesn't agree with your immmigration views.

I don't know how many times I can point out that I am white and I am fine with that and I am not ashamed to be white and I am not ashamed of my family.  I've never had anyone I worked with in immigrant rights make me feel unwelcome or out of place or ashamed for my skin color.  I wonder what it is that you know about the immigrant rights movement that I have somehow failed to discern over the past three years.

"Cherokee Girl doesn't believe what I believe and that makes me feel insecure because maybe I'm wrong. I think I'll twist her words and try to get an angry mob to have at her."

Some things never change.

wow hard to know where to start

i'm still waiting for a "dear socialist fuckstick" email like the one Kos got, a classic of the genre ... i think my commenters are getting there slowly

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/6/27/747350/-Saturday-hate-mail-apalooza

Some Californians have a real problem accepting responsibility for the problems they have created for themselves. 

Also have a problem with math.  40% of the work for are illegal aliens and do not pay taxes

Population of CA: about 36 million.  Let's say half are in the work force.  40% of 18 million is 7.2 million.  Pew estimates 12 million undocumented in the U.S., many of whom are not in the work force.  By your calculations, nearly the entire undocumented work force in the U.S. resides in CA. 

Also the myth that undocumented pay no taxes has been debunked many times, yet the zombie lies live on: http://www.wecanstopthehate.org/uploads/file_CommonMyths_Immigrants_FINAL.pdf

   I am talking about today, not yesterday.

Get over your self and realize that sneaking into this country, working under the table and not paying taxes are all crimes.

Hireling an illegal alien is even worse because most of the scum that hire them take advantage at levels bordering on slavery

Hal

 I am so sorry, but since I paid my way to become an American Citizen in 2001. I am an American . You are talking about those who are born here,which according to the Consitution of USA they are also Americans, but the ones who came here illegal are not North American Citizens.

Hal so in tune you support slaverly? since you claim these illegals are the ones who put food on my table?

ummm? no I get my veggies and fruits from local farmers market of small families who are trying to make it here in USA. The companies that illegals are working for, are people who support GMO foods, foods that poison the american public.

White people didnt help built this country only color did? hmmm? White is a color for your information Cherokee Girl... If you dont think so, look it up in the dictionary.

The color you are thinking about didn't happen until the old slave trade... that was a long time ago. Many immigrants who came here through Ellis Island help built this country.. check the history books.

You say Mark has been twisting your words? no  I have reading what you said, calling white people whitey is a racists term and you want to call who racists ? LMAO

Racists comes in all different people, in USA we have Black separatists typically oppose integration and racial intermarriage, and they want separate institutions -- or even a separate nation -- for blacks. Most forms of black separatism are strongly anti-white and anti - jewish.

Their groups are all over USA but the media will not tell you this, because they are afraid for people to know. Racism is a bad thing, but to group all white people or any people of a different hertigue just because there are a few bad apples in this country is totally unreal.

Like I said before, I do not have a problem with people who comes here Legally and abide to the laws, but when people comes here illegally and demand they get special treatments this is totally wrong.

In USA we have alot of Native Americans tribes who are forgotten, the media only focus on certain people . If Americans knew what is happening to the First Nation people in this country and understand these people were here first in this country.. maybe the illegals will understand our people comes first and they should be the ones who should get the better treatment, for 500 years the indian tribes has been mistreated and forgotten.

 Peace

Thanks for your apology and your thoughts.

I can play catch up to Dave here or we could have met in Philadelphia today.  My wife went in herself since I didn't hear back.  That's all right, I'm the Rodney Dangerfield of gubernatorial candidates.

And why hasn't someone had the decency to tell Lara to use the spell check.  i can see that she's banging away at the keyboard and rushing to post.  up until last year i was completely computer illiterate.  lara put your cursor over check spelling. left click, put cursor over red underlined words, left click again and change.  capitalization is optional (i say so).  and don't be embarrassed, i'm the worst speller.  all i've gotten for my political troubles is i realize as i sit here and misspell and reverse things, is that i'm a little dyslexic.  there i just corrected two misspellings.

o geez.  Bring your complaint to NCLR.  They wrote the passage that has got your goat.  And they speak Spanish, too, I'm told.