We are 'permanent residents.' We just don't have a paper and a 9-digit number saying so. Actually, if you want us out of here, you might as well legalize us so some of us can actually leave to see our families in other parts of the world.

f th r hr lrd, wtht lgl stts, thn th d nt rspct r lws, nd ths dsrv r hlp. Thr r dsrvng ppl, rl rfgs, nt jst grd lttl cwrds, wh nd ccss t mrcn schls nd prsprt. Y knw t s fnn, 'v nvr sn Mxcn 'cnmc rfg' wh s ntrlzd, gt n dctn, bcm n ctvst, nd rtrn t Mxc t fx th prblms tht frcd thm t bcm n mrcn. Th, lk mst cnmc rfgs jst stblsh nghbrhd, brng thr fml, nd hv kds tht frthr brdn r cntr, whl prvdng nl lw lvl mnl lbr nd ths tkng jbs frm ndctd, bt lgl, wrkrs.

You could've improved your message by eliminating the consonants too.  As a matter of fact, that would be a 100% imrpovement.

Wh wld wnt t?  Wrtng lk ths s tm cnsmng.  y mst hv spnt n hr jst mkng yr rgmnt.

Usually, you can psychoanalyze someone just be looking at what they right.  Micheal readily uses words like lazy, cowardly, cheater... yeah... those are very intellectual arguments there, Mike.  5th graders talk like that. 

Maybe the truth is that people that are immigrating into this country are not so different from us.  They just want whats best for their children and families.  Now, that sounds more universal doesn't it.  Not the Bill O' Reilly-esque negative stereotypical propaganda that MICHEAL is using. 

There is a universal law of supply and demand.  ITs an economic thing.  There is a supply of jobs in the US, low paying jobs that nobody with any sort of education should really want, but there is a demand for those jobs for those who have nothing and are looking for a better life.  You can't fight economic forces Mike.  Corporations will just outsource for cheap labor.  That expensive and pathetic little wall down south certainly isn't going to help.

Again and again you cut off my tongue, and it grows back. The weakness of your arguments, your hypocrisy, and the fact that you delete my posts, demonstrate your close minded and childish despotism. Please use this mirror as a growth opportunity, and fight the urge to be the kind of dictator who quells decent with censorship. Stop erasing my posts. 

With people like Robert Bonfante supporting the Dream Act, it can not help but fail. 

With people like Robert Bonfante supporting the Dream Act, it can not help but fail. 

Censor that if it's true.

Suppression of the just is the first sign of despotism. Evil is a Evil does, right Robert?

If they are already here, then they don't need access to our country to achieve their dreams, as they already have it.

What you are saying make no sense. Just because you write something that does not make it intelligible. Please refrain from making inconsiderate comments, if you want a real debate, use real facts and real arguments.
To say "they don't need access to our country" is senseless, they don't simply want access-they want residency so that they are no longer treated as second class citizens, so that they are able to apply their talents and the education they have ALREADY received to our receding economy.
To say "they already have it" again is a seriously misunderstanding of what we're trying to do here, the opportunities we're trying to provide. We are not advocating the introduction of millions of new immigrants, to qualify for this legislation you need to have been brought here before the age of 16 and be under the age of 30 and have a high school diploma and GED. Without consider the millions of youths who've been here since infancy, one must have spent at least 3 or 4 years spent in the U.S., one of the requirement is attending college for at least 2 years and unless you're a genius (which I would assume we WANT in this country, we sure need them) you need more than 3 years to adjust to the system and be successful at applying and attending college.

We are asking that this country give people who are already American in every sense of the word legal recognition. We're asking that people be treated as people.

Again and again you cut off my tongue, and it grows back. The weakness of your arguments, your hypocrisy, and the fact that you delete my posts, demonstrate your close minded and childish despotism. Please use this mirror as a growth opportunity, and fight the urge to be the kind of dictator who quells decent with censorship. Stop erasing my posts. 

If you can read, he is quoting Nez, dork.

Isn't 30 a little old to be accepting people who have 'dreams' of a future, aren't they already adults that should be responsible for creating their own future? My understanding of the DREAM ACT was to allow gifted and talented undocumented children to remain within the USA, because they were brought here by their unethical parents, through no fault of their own. That way we can benefit from their talent and skills, and get back our considerable investment in them (and thus denying their home country that benefit, because the home country created the problems that forced them here in the first place). 

Totally unethical, trying to escape the poverty and lack of opportunity U.S. trade laws and corporations have induced in Latin American countries. How unethical to want to work hard and actually be paid fairly. Maybe if they were American they'd be as smart as you and able to spew all that intelligence you type up.

Besides, who are you to judge how old is a little two old. How can they be responsible for creating their own future if there is an enormous barrier called U.S. citizenship not allowing them to apply the college or graduate education they have earned? There are young adults out there graduating from law school, medical school, and will not be able to apply any of it because they have no documents.

You should look at the past 50 years of American policy toward Latin America. Then maybe you'll have a better understanding on exactly what makes people immigrate. Perhaps then you can make intelligent statements not false stereotypes you picked up from Fox news.

Again and again you cut off my tongue, and it grows back. The weakness of your arguments, your hypocrisy, and the fact that you delete my posts, demonstrate your close minded and childish despotism. Please use this mirror as a growth opportunity, and fight the urge to be the kind of dictator who quells decent with censorship. Stop erasing my posts. 

No, just the people in Congress.  It wouldn't be the first time that the powers that be are out of touch with the U.S. population.  For example, look at the entire eight years of the Bush administration.

Colorado is certainly not the "country." Get an atlas.

Problem is that as America continues to steal the brains from countries around the world, we leave those countries without the human capital necessary to overcome the huge problems they face. We thus subject those countries to our military control, and use their natural and human resources to provide our economic lifestyle.
Perhaps we should add a clause to the Dream Act that would require that all students allowed to stay for their degree, must return to their home country for an amount of time equal to the amount of time it takes to earn that degree, to help correct that home countries problems, to educate their relatives, and to re-establish the link to their ancestral home. Thus we justly give back some of the benefit that these young minds will give to our nation to the country of origin. 

Your strategy of taking our arguments and using them against us is a familiar tactic. Somehow, I doubt seriously that you care that we exploit the natural and human resources of other countries, any more than you care about the DREAMers. But you got your talking points from some extremist group and got sent out as a good little evangelist for hate, no? 

Michael, you are ridiculous. Let's start with your giving back to the "country of origin" argument. I'm sure your ancestors weren't born here.  Does this mean we should send you "back" to your "home" country to solve all their problems? You know, now that I think about it, that sounds like a great idea. How soon can you pack?

Your fears reveal your true self. You make prejudiced assumptions about others and become your own enemy. This has always been my homeland, only those who break the law then ask for exceptions are aliens here. You divisionists bullies are funny to watch. 

If the immigrant is already educated, then they don't need the dream act. If they have skills we need, there is the H-1 visa that allows them into our nation, to do jobs we apparently can't do, or train our young to do ourselves (actually we just bring H-1 people here to undercut the salaries of skilled Americans, but that's another issue). 
The Dream Act is designed to keep the undocumented children of illegal immigrants, who have shown promise, from leaving the country after achieving some level of educational ability. 
Thus we increase our intellectual capital at the expense of their home country. Robbing them of the benefit that that home country threw away by failing to provide adequate opportunities. Too bad for them, because we benefit from their best and brightest.

You have to have maintained lawful immigration status to qualify for an H-1B visa.  None of the Dreamers we're talking about are in that position.  But keep making your paternalistic arguments and telling yourself it's altruism. 

'paternalism' requires some power of authority, all I have is my vote. It's not altruistic to help people go home and make their nation more like the USA, its actually very self-serving. I think if the rest of the world was more like the USA, then people wouldn't need to escape. Then we could all fulfill our potential.

Your preferred policy, the one you cast your vote for, is a paternalistic policy ... you're telling people who came to this country as children that they would be better off going back to the places they escaped from, even as they are telling you directly, and every Friday on this blog, that they believe otherwise.  Just give up the facade that you have their interests at heart.  Admit that you don't want them here and leave it at that.  I respect honesty more than false compassion.

No, not that THEY would be (individually) better off, they may or may not (it depends), but the world in total will be better off in the long run if they are motivated to fix the problems their society of origin created. They might not like that they came from a dictatorship, and were once too weak and cowardly to fight to the death for their freedom, but they are no longer weak, as we have made them strong, so their only limitation is their courage. I have no only their interests, as I believe their struggle and suffering will make them better and stronger still, but the interests of their people in my heart. I have great compassion for those who fight for freedom, just as I do here in my home country. I empathize with their plight, I sometimes feel even this country to which they have run is under threat of becoming fascist, so I struggle and fight (as you see) to keep that from happening to my homeland, even as others would bring their problems here. I don't mind people coming here to learn. I even enjoy helping them fight. But if they do not return home and correct the injustice that sent them fleeing, then they have shirked their responsibility, or are cowards. 

You clearly have some issues with immigrants, but you should deal with them somewhere else.

Again you cut off my tongue and it grows back. Strange how the censorship is so pronounced here, where alien values ignore the law. My xenophilla is being tested. If only we could meet face to face and truly know each other. 

Susan an Chuck, you are just wasting your energy... no1 will listen, their mind is made up. there are those that maybe are just miss-informed about the issue, and there are those that no matter what you tell them; they will not change their mind.

i lose alot of sleep b/c of these people, dont do the same.

Nothing like a dose of truth to expose the lies. 

Let me just correct you on some things... im gonna take the actual text from the bill (magic).

read closely.

MYTH: The bill retroactively repeals the federal ban on in-state tuition for illegal aliens, thus
nullifying the lawsuits already decided in favor of the federal ban, but currently under
appeal.

BILL SAYS: An alien who adjusts status to that of a lawful permanent resident under this Act shall be eligible only for the following assistance under such title:

           (1) Student loans under parts B, D, and E of such title IV (20 U.S.C. 1071 et seq., 1087a et seq., 1087aa et seq.), subject to the requirements of such parts.

           (2) Federal work-study programs under part C of such title IV (42 U.S.C. 2751 et seq.), subject to the requirements of such part.

           (3) Services under such title IV (20 U.S.C. 1070 et seq.), subject to the requirements for such services.

- Instate tuition will be determined by each state accordingly. Do any of you understand what "subject to the requirements for such services." mean... good.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MYTH: To qualify for lawful permanent resident status, an applicant must be inadmissible or
deportable and must:

Have been physically present in the US for the five years preceding the date of
enactment (the bill does not specify how aliens are to prove this, or even whether
they have to prove it);

BILL SAYS: (A) the alien has been physically present in the United States for a continuous period of not less than 5 years immediately preceding the date of enactment of this Act, and had not yet reached the age of 16 years at the time of initial entry;

It is not up to the senators to determine how aliens are to prove this. The bill will go to the secretary of Homeland Security to determine how the whole process is gonna take place. Read below:

Regulations-

(1) PROPOSED REGULATIONS- Not later than 180 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall publish proposed regulations implementing this section. Such regulations shall be effective immediately on an interim basis, but are subject to change and revision AFTER public notice and opportunity for a period for public comment.

(2) INTERIM, FINAL REGULATIONS- Within a reasonable time AFTER publication of the interim regulations in accordance with paragraph (1), the Secretary of Homeland Security shall publish FINAL regulations implementing this section.

School records/ transcripts certify someone's presence at the time being.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MYTH: Be a “person of good moral character,” but only AFTER the application is filed;

BILL SAYS: the alien has been a person of good moral character SINCE the time of application;

- Again, if someone is convicted of a crime, there would be a record of that crime throughout the whole time of the alien's precense in the U.S.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

YOU STATE: Not have been convicted of an aggravated felony or more than two misdemeanors
(though being charged with such crimes is fine);

BILL SAYS: (i) is not inadmissible under paragraph (2), (3), (6)(E), or (10)(C) of section 212(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1182(a));

(http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001182----000-.html)

(2)  Criminal and related grounds
(A) Conviction of certain crimes
      (i) In general Except as provided in clause (ii), any alien convicted of, or who admits having committed, or who admits committing   acts which constitute the essential elements of—
      (I) a crime involving moral turpitude (other than a purely political offense) or an attempt or conspiracy to commit such a crime, or
      (II) a violation of (or a conspiracy or attempt to violate) any law or regulation of a State, the United States, or a foreign country relating to a controlled substance (as defined in section 802 of title 21),
 is inadmissible.
      
      (ii) Exception Clause (i)(I) shall not apply to an alien who committed only one crime if—
       (I) the crime was committed when the alien was under 18 years of age, and the crime was committed (and the alien released from   any confinement to a prison or correctional institution imposed for the crime) more than 5 years before the date of application for a visa or other documentation and the date of application for admission to the United States, or
       (II) the maximum penalty possible for the crime of which the alien was convicted (or which the alien admits having committed or of which the acts that the alien admits having committed constituted the essential elements) did not exceed imprisonment for one year and, if the alien was convicted of such crime, the alien was not sentenced to a term of imprisonment in excess of 6 months (regardless of the extent to which the sentence was ultimately executed).

(B)  Multiple criminal convictions
Any alien convicted of 2 or more offenses (other than purely political offenses), regardless of whether the conviction was in a single trial or whether the offenses arose from a single scheme of misconduct and regardless of whether the offenses involved moral turpitude, for which the aggregate sentences to confinement were 5 years or more is inadmissible.

- Certain misdemeanor offenses are considered crimes of moral turpitude. This section is taken from the Immigration And nationality Act. It is not repealed. Thus making the alien deportable even with one misdemeanor. Stealing a pack of gum would make you deportable.

Follow the link below and you can read all the criminal acts that would render an alien deportable.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001182----000-.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MYTH: Not be a known/convicted smuggler or human trafficker (all other immigration
violations are fine, and this one can be waived for humanitarian or family unity
purposes);

BILL SAYS:
6(E) Smugglers

(i) In general Any alien who at any time knowingly has encouraged, induced, assisted, abetted, or aided any other alien to enter or to try to enter the United States in violation of law is inadmissible.

-There would be no other immigration violation since the alien was under the age of 16 years old at the time of entry. Other immigration violations (fraud, Misrepresentation) would fall under the criminal grounds; wich the bill mentions as one of the requirments (deportability).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MYTH: Have never received a final order of removal or exclusion unless the alien
successfully played the legal system and found a way to remain in the US under
color of law, or the final order was issued before the alien turned 16; and
o Be under 35 years of age as of the date of enactment.

BILL SAYS: (E) the alien has never been under a final administrative or judicial order of exclusion, deportation, or removal, unless the alien--

(i) has remained in the United States under color of law after such order was issued; or

(ii) received the order before attaining the age of 16 years; and

(F) the alien had not yet reached the age of 35 years on the date of the enactment of this Act.

- the max age of the applicant is increased to allow space for future amendments to be added that would lower the age limit. 

- there is no sutch thing as "playing the legal system"... it is the due process and right of the alien to appeal the case. Many cases have been re-opened by the federal courts of appeal.

- The alien cannot have absconded during all this time, or they will be rendered indasmissible. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MYTH: There are no numerical limits on how many illegal aliens may be granted amnesty, and
they cannot be counted against any existing immigration cap.

BILL SAYS: (d) Exemption From Numerical Limitations- Nothing in this section may be construed to apply a numerical limitation on the number of aliens who may be eligible for cancellation of removal or adjustment of status under this section.

- It is for those who are eligible only.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MYTH: There is no end date on the application period, so an alien who enters illegally next year,
but who can purchase or fabricate “evidence” indicating that he meets the requirements,
can apply for amnesty.

BILL SAYS: (2) INTERIM, FINAL REGULATIONS- Within a reasonable time after publication of the interim regulations in accordance with paragraph (1), the Secretary of Homeland Security shall publish final regulations implementing this section.

SEC. 8. PENALTIES FOR FALSE STATEMENTS IN APPLICATION.
Whoever files an application for relief under this Act and willfully and knowingly falsifies, misrepresents, or conceals a material fact or makes any false or fraudulent statement or representation, or makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any false or fraudulent statement or entry, shall be fined in accordance with title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

- Triggering deportability under criminal grounds.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MYTH: No alien who files an amnesty application may be removed from the United States before
the application is adjudicated completely. There are no exceptions to this, so as long as an alien
filed an amnesty application before he flew a plane into the World Trade Center or went on a killing
spree in the local mall, he could not be removed from the country until USCIS (hopefully) denied his
application and he exhausted all appeals.

BILL SAYS: (3) PROCEDURES- The Secretary of Homeland Security shall provide a procedure by regulation allowing ELIGABLE individuals to apply affirmatively for the relief available under this subsection without being placed in removal proceedings.

(ii) shall not give rise to any private right of action by the alien. (appeals, lawsuits)

- ONLY eligable applicants would have their removal stayed.
- final procedures are not up to the bill, the secretary of Homeland Security will decide how the proceedings are gonna be handled.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MYTH: Aliens granted amnesty would be given conditional permanent resident status for six
years. This conditional status could only be terminated if DHS determines that the alien:

- Has become a public charge (there are no regulations defining this term in
immigration law, so this provision is not currently enforceable)

BILL SAYS: PROVISION TAKEN FROM THE Department of Homeland Security
how is “public charge” defined, and when will this definition be implemented?
according to www.dhs.gov (check it out yourself)
A3: INS is issuing guidance and a proposed regulation that define “public charge” for the first time. “Public charge” means an alien who has become (for deportation purposes) or who is likely to become (for admission/adjustment purposes) primarily dependent on the government for subsistence. This definition is effective immediately. As discussed below, INS and State will consider the receipt of cash benefits for income maintenance purposes and institutionalization for long-term care at government expense in determining dependence on the government for subsistence.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MYTH: When the amnestied aliens complete their six years of conditional permanent resident
status, they can petition USCIS to have the conditions removed and become regular lawful
permanent residents. The petition may be filed any time within the six months leading up
to, or the two years following, the end of the six-year period.

BILLS SAYS: (3) TIME TO FILE PETITION- An alien may petition to remove the conditional basis to lawful resident status during the period beginning 180 days before and ending 2 years after either the date that is 6 years after the date of the granting of conditional permanent resident status or any other expiration date of the conditional permanent resident status as extended by the Secretary of Homeland Security in accordance with this Act. The alien shall be deemed in conditional permanent resident status in the United States during the period in which the petition is pending.

- The alien will be required to petition for permanent resident status in advance for timing purpuses.

(B) REMOVAL OF CONDITIONAL BASIS IF FAVORABLE DETERMINATION- If the Secretary determines that the alien meets such requirements, the Secretary shall notify the alien of such determination and immediately remove the conditional basis of the status of the alien.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MYTH: Has not been absent from the US for more than 365 days during the six years (or
he/she can explain such absence and why it doesn’t indicate abandonment of US
residence).

BILL SAYS: (1) IN GENERAL- An alien shall be considered to have failed to maintain continuous physical presence in the United States under subsection (a) if the alien has departed from the United States for any period in excess of 90 days or for any periods in the aggregate exceeding 180 days.

The Secretary of Homeland Security may extend the time periods described in paragraph (1) IF the alien demonstrates that the failure to timely return to the United States was due to exceptional circumstances. The exceptional circumstances determined sufficient to justify an extension should be no less compelling than serious illness of the alien, or death or serious illness of a parent, grandparent, sibling, or child.

- Certain college majors require students to travel abroad. The alien may travel abroad ONLY for educational purpuses/ required for certain majors.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MYTH: The good news for illegal alien students is that if their removal proceedings are stayed,
they are automatically authorized to work in the US, regardless of whether they apply for
and are granted amnesty. This is in addition to all the illegal aliens who are actually
granted amnesty and automatically given work authorization with their conditional
permanent resident status.

BILL SAYS: If removal proceedings are stayed, an allien may not be authorized to work in the U.S.

- Reason being is because there is not protected statuts category for sutch petition. You can check the categories in wich an
alien is protected by visiting: http://www.immihelp.com/immigration/employment-authorization-document.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MYTH: USCIS is required to adjudicate all amnesty applications on “an expedited basis” but
prohibited from requiring a higher fee from amnesty applicants for such expedited
processing.

BILL SAYS: the reason for the "expedited basis" is for DHS to quickly see who is aligable for the act or not.

- they dont want to stay an alien's removal for long, if he/she is found to be ineligable.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LOOK AT THE PROPOSED BILL YOURSELF... (changes may apply, amendments may be added):
http://www.govtrack.us

As Alex demonstrated, with a couple of missteps, Rosemary Jenks is paid to disseminate misinformation.  If she is the best that NumbersUSA or CIS has to offer on policy analysis, that doesn't say much for those organizations.  She seems to have never seen the inside of an immigration courtroom or a USCIS adjudicator's office, either on behalf of the government or the applicant.  I have to wonder if she's ever cracked open the INA or Title 8 of the Code of Federal Regulations.  There are two possible explanations for her misanalysis of DREAM: either she doesn't know what she's talking about or she is lying.  A couple examples:

--USCIS doesn't take anybody's word for anything.  All claims must be documented.  The statute won't contain the details of how this verfication will take place; that is up to existing regulations or those to be promulgated by the agency.  Alex, a nonlawyer, figured this out.  Congressional pages probably understand that this is how administrative law works.  But it was too much for Jenks to master.

--Parents who brought their kids here across the border won't be able to adjust their status to permanent residence based on any petition filed by their child.  They'd have to leave the country and apply for a hardship waiver for unlawful presence and potentially other violations.  Those waivers are hard to get.

Jenks embarrasses herself every time she puts pen to paper, and commenters who link to her only discredit themselves.

omg, she apparently went to Harvard Law School.  Harvard, you might want to take that degree back.

Mr. Shqipe & Mr. Bennion,
Convenient how you don't mention the hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money required not only to educate these illegal immigrants, but also for DHS to do the necceassary status confirmations.

Dave,

Me and a couple of other friends looked at the bill closely. I directed the link of the bill so people can themselves take a look. Some newbies in this site; fall pray to some of the things that people post. They post these things without even posting the link to the actual Dream Act bill...

I pay taxes, my mom and dad do too... my taxes also pay for an American who decides to stay home and do nothing. give others work authorization and theyl pay their taxes too (if anyone hires them). It takes more taxpayer money to keep people in prison. DHS/ ICE were created for the sole purpuse of identifying and removing criminal aliens/ fugitives, so the prison system wouldnt get overcrowded and taxpayer money have to pay for a criminal. also making comunities safer. but now they detain aliens who havent even had their hearing yet. well because those private detention facilities are paid by your tax dollar.

to truth seeker, if you dont know how the legal way works; dont comment. certain individuals from Europe come through the borders in search for political isylum. there is no sutch thing as "isylum super fast visa"... therefore those people have no other way to come here. they give themselves up at the border and go through the due process.

the hundreds of millions of dollars are to be discussed in another thread. I will send you all the statistics and links to the charts, etc. from independent sources.

Dave may post a blog on the tax burder, so we could all discuss it there.

Convenient how you don't mention the hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money required not only to educate these illegal immigrants, but also for DHS to do the necceassary status confirmations.

As Alex said, many immigrants pay taxes, and eligibility for federal aid for Dreamers in college would be limited as Alex pointed out in the text of the bill above.

Also, USCIS charges immigrants themselves fees to cover the costs of processing applications.  Naturalization = $675; green card application = $1010; green card renewal = $370; work permit application = $340.  It's quite a racket.  Those fees also cover costs of processing applications for humanitarian relief like asylum.  Taxpayers won't pay for those "status confirmations" you mention.

It sounds like you know what you are talking until one picks apart your words and realizes that yiou don't. Giving an in-state tuition to an "illegal" instead of a U.S. citizen is not actually happening because that person is no longer "illegal" under the DREAM act so really there is no competition or favoring. Not only that but many US citizens are not even interested in going to college becuase they have no interest in higher education so why not give someone who wants it, a chance to learn , reguardless of their former legal status? I think you yourself could use some more real education, and cutt that pretentious "I'm an american bull shit." As an indigenous person to this land, I can tell you are probably an ignorant juero and should shut your mouth about illegals before people decide to send your ass home to whereever they came from. The fact is that many Mexican nationals are the decendants from the Aztecs, Incans, Mayans and many more indigenous communities and have more business being on this continent than you do. Your arguments are built on tired theories. Why don't you, if you are so against your definition of "illegal", make an active concious effort to organize all who think like you, to boycott every servicio that is provided by a non-US citizen and see if you can even survive!or even dent the economic system. I think you can't and won't because the majority are compassionate people that do support the DREAM act. You can dream on that you can convice the masses out of doing whats right.

Michael, as a proponent of "liberty," have you ever thought to ask a DREAMer--or any immigrant at all--what they think about your plans for their future?  Or do you know what is best for them without even having to ask?  Telepathy?  Or just innate moral certainty ...

Not only do I have an ongoing conversation about this subject with many immigrants from all over the world (most of them legal), but I've married one. So, yea I'm kind of understand what is best for everyone involved: education, economic justice, cross cultural exchange, democracy, etc. These things are not controversial. If you read the ideas above and you have a better solution offer it, if you don't have any better ideas, then keep quiet. Don't imply that I haven't done the hard work and asked the hard questions, when you're the one making assumptions about my moral certainty.

How many Dreamers have you talked to?  You don't seem to have listened to the ones on this site.  I'm skeptical that undocumented immigrants in the U.S. will support your plans to deport them 'for their own good.'

Literally dozens personally, hundreds if you count forums like this and mass media. Undocumented Immigrants who are here illegally and avoiding the consequences of their illegal actions are unethical, and out for themselves, not the common good. So, your skepticism is prudent. They are cowards, running from their homes to the safety and hospitality of others. American ideals like independence and courage are lacking in their character. To them I say: "Step up to the challenge, earn your liberty. Throw off your chains. Here are the tools; literacy, democracy, justice - now go use them on your oppressors, and take back your homes." 

"Here are the tools; literacy, democracy, justice - now go use them on your oppressors, and take back your homes."

i dont know why you people talk soo much, you havent been anywhere in the world. can you say spoiled?... go out, travel to other places. i go use those "tools" of urs in my country; i get my tongue choped off. or i can just shut up about it and live for another day.

"Alex, you're willing to speak your mind in this 'free' country, but your afraid to speak in you homeland."

um duh, b/c my homeland isn't 'free'. and what responsibility of my illegal actions your talking about?? i didnt even come here illegally, so what in the world you talkin' about.

your forefathers LEFT their native land for a reason, and they fought here, not in Britain... theres a huge difference. the 13 colonies should've just gone back to England and fight the war there. you watch too many movies. be a man and stop complaining so much.

Michael, your rhetoric is tiresome.  You can disguise your racism with whatever jargon you wish, but we see you for who (and what) you are. You brand as cowards those who risk their lives to have a better life, even when "better" means abject poverty.  Cowards who work themselves to exhaustion in two or more jobs for below minimum wage. Cowards who sacrifice everything so their children can have future. And you want to ship these children back to "homes" they can't remember and languages we've made them forget. And for what?  So they can "earn" the liberty that should be a birthright? It was a birthright for you. What makes you better than "them"?  An accident of geography?

Strange how your replies to my notes are still here long after my words have been censored and hidden. Your ad homonym attacks demonstrate the bankruptcy of your ideas. You've run out of argument, so you start calling names, demonizing your opponent, rather than addressing the issues. Within your words are the seed of your disease. I simply describe the facts, those who run from their home when the going gets tough, are cowards. Those who turn their back upon their homeland for money are worse, traitorous. To freely enslave yourself to Americans, is to admit the failure of these alien cultures, where selfish need to reproduce and the inability to support those innocent young lives is usually met with stark reality and accountability, but for these Dream Act proponents, the laws of nature apparently don't apply. They turn their back upon their identity, they forget their language, to lazy to strive and become multi-lingual, too afraid to return home with their new found skills and correct the wrongs of the past. Liberty is the birthright of every man, but it must be earned with eternal vigilance. I never claimed to be better intrinsically, egalitarianism is my creed, and meritocracy my test of worth. Let each person be judged by their actions. Let those who would steal and cheat to secure favor for their children be held accountable. I sometimes lament that I have not suffered some great injustice, so that I might dedicate my life to the fight. These kids given that gift of identity, turn their back upon the struggle, and misplace there aggression, biting the hand that fed them. Without dignity they beg to be given a pass. May history judge them accordingly. Life is not fair, but it is we who make it unjust, by ignoring our responsibilities, and running from our problems. You shouldn't encourage people to inflict their mistakes upon others, it can only harm them in the end. And one also shouldn't call others names, especially when you're so full of flaws,  it can only harm you in the end. Now cut off my tongue :P

Strange how your replies to my notes are still here long after my words have been censored and hidden. Your ad hominem attacks demonstrate the bankruptcy of your ideas. You've run out of argument, so you start calling names, demonizing your opponent, rather than addressing the issues. Within your words are the seed of your disease. I simply describe the facts, those who run from their home when the going gets tough, are cowards. Those who turn their back upon their homeland for money are worse, traitorous. To freely enslave yourself to Americans, is to admit the failure of these alien cultures, where selfish need to reproduce and the inability to support those innocent young lives is usually met with stark reality and accountability, but for these Dream Act proponents, the laws of nature apparently don't apply. They turn their back upon their identity, they forget their language, to lazy to strive and become multi-lingual, too afraid to return home with their new found skills and correct the wrongs of the past. Liberty is the birthright of every man, but it must be earned with eternal vigilance. I never claimed to be better intrinsically, egalitarianism is my creed, and meritocracy my test of worth. Let each person be judged by their actions. Let those who would steal and cheat to secure favor for their children be held accountable. I sometimes lament that I have not suffered some great injustice, so that I might dedicate my life to the fight. These kids given that gift of identity, turn their back upon the struggle, and misplace there aggression, biting the hand that fed them. Without dignity they beg to be given a pass. May history judge them accordingly. Life is not fair, but it is we who make it unjust, by ignoring our responsibilities, and running from our problems. You shouldn't encourage people to inflict their mistakes upon others, it can only harm them in the end. And one also shouldn't call others names, especially when you're so full of flaws,  it can only harm you in the end. Now cut off my tongue :P

If you came her legally, what happened?

I can find a poll that says that a majority of Americans support a path to citizenship for undocumented migrants.  Shouldn't our legislature reflect that wish? 

Immigration reform is going to be messy and will probably make everyone unhappy about one part or another of it.  I'm not even sure it can be done in the ways that it was attempted in 2006 and 2007.  I think most Americans are stuck in a time that no longer exists, kind of like the British in 1945 or the French in 1815, and it's going to take U.S. immigration and foreign policy awhile to catch up.

what poll are you referring too the one George sorois made up?  or the one la raza did in a wal mart parking lot?   cut the crap most Americans do not support illegals or amnesty get real!

Try this gallup poll:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/26875/Public-Still-Supports-Path-Citizenship-Illegal-Immigrants.aspx

No Kate, not Amnesty... even I dont want Amnesty.

What is your source for the 3 million number?

its more like 1.2 million... eventualy gaining residency... some that come in with certain visas dont stay (visitor, h2-b,) to name a few.

and usually the caps that limit how many are gona come for certain visas, is rarely met.

In 2008, a total of 1,107,126 persons became LPRs of the United States

well other countries have more legit and fair options to immigrating. Canada ans Germany hold the most isylum seekers to date. Other countries also do not compare to the land mass and population of the U.S.

I dont think people should sponsor anyone but their spouce and child under 21. but then again, people could disagree. ur not America, and u dont think for the 300 more million Americans. if you wana start denying applications, you might as well start working for USCIS. or ICE, i herd they get good vacation pay.

give it a try

theres no sutch a thing as "refugee easy pass" or sum kind of "R-Visa"... countries that prosecute its people; dont let anyone leave outside those borders. Many refugees and isylum seekers come through the southern border illegally. They are aprehended and have a hearing to determine what kind of relief they can apply for. we are all going around in circles. 

we can go down arguying all the way down this page to infinity.

or you can go and do what this bringht young fella does: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gngry3__Y5A&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fuser%2Fnolyortiz&feature=player_embedded

Oh, by the way,  as it stands,  if your spouse came to the USA illegally, in order to get legal status, you must do all of the above, not to mention they must go back to their native country and WAIT for a visa to then come back to their spouse and family.  This could take 1 day up to 10 years.  Doesn't this defeat the purpose?  Speaking from personal experience.