Immigration

Bill Moyers Interviews Former Health Insurance Insider Wendell Potter

Published August 01, 2009 @ 08:24AM PT

I was flipping through the tv channels this morning and happened to catch the rebroadcast of Bill Moyers's interview with former Cigna executive Wendell Potter about the role of the insurance industry in the health care debate.

For me it was a bombshell.  I watched Sicko and I know the contours of the debate, but hearing specifics from an insider like Potter was a revelation.  Looking over to Tim Foley's blog, I realize that I missed the boat on this story, which he covered when the interview first ran last month and which a reader turned into a change.org Action. This isn't strictly speaking an immigration topic, but the two topics are connected.

Potter made an extraordinary personal journey that reminded me of our recent interview with former anti-illegal immigrant activist R Jay Pearson.  Potter's Road to Damascus moment came on a trip home to visit relatives in Tennessee, when he heard about a health care fair being held in nearby Virginia.

BILL MOYERS: So you drove there?

WENDELL POTTER: I did. I borrowed my dad's car and drove up 50 miles up the road to Wise, Virginia. It was being held at a Wise County Fairground. I took my camera. I took some pictures. It was a very cloudy, misty day, it was raining that day, and I walked through the fairground gates. And I didn't know what to expect. I just assumed that it would be, you know, like a health-- booths set up and people just getting their blood pressure checked and things like that.

But what I saw were doctors who were set up to provide care in animal stalls. Or they'd erected tents, to care for people. I mean, there was no privacy. In some cases-- and I've got some pictures of people being treated on gurneys, on rain-soaked pavement.

And I saw people lined up, standing in line or sitting in these long, long lines, waiting to get care. People drove from South Carolina and Georgia and Kentucky, Tennessee-- all over the region, because they knew that this was being done. A lot of them heard about it from word of mouth.

There could have been people and probably were people that I had grown up with. They could have been people who grew up at the house down the road, in the house down the road from me. And that made it real to me.

BILL MOYERS: What did you think?

WENDELL POTTER: It was absolutely stunning. It was like being hit by lightning. It was almost-- what country am I in? I just it just didn't seem to be a possibility that I was in the United States. It was like a lightning bolt had hit me.

Potter now works for the Center for Media and Democracy using his expertise to debunk the misinformation circulated by the health insurance industry.  My take away from his interview with Moyers can be boiled down to this:

  1. Health insurance companies are pressured by investors on Wall Street, primarily hedge fund managers and other institutional investors, to raise profits.  Insurance companies respond by raising premiums and cutting sick people from the policy rolls.
  2. Health care reform could damage the hugely profitable model that now exists by implementing a system the primary purpose of which is to keep people healthy instead of padding the bank accounts of insurance executives and shareholders.
  3. Insurance companies fight against reform by lobbying ideological allies in Congress on both sides of the aisle, often by hiring former staff members who provide an automatic introduction to powerful politicians.  Senator Max Baucus (D-MT), perhaps the most important legislator in the health care reform debate, was visited recently by two of his former chiefs of staff who were hired by the health insurance lobby.  The insurance lobby donates heavily to both Republicans and Democrats to make sure politicians work to protect corporate interests instead of serving the interests of their constituents.
  4. Insurance companies also conduct an ongoing smear campaign through back channels and third parties to discredit the idea of a stronger government role in the provision of health care.  Politicians have dutifully parroted the language written by insurance companies and their ideological allies in an effort to slow or stop the current effort to reform the system.

Keep in mind all this comes not from Michael Moore but from a well-compensated former Cigna employee whose job for 15 years was to advocate in the public sphere for the interests of insurance companies.

I was also interested to hear Potter's description of the insurance industry's calculated (and largely successful) effort to blunt the impact of Michael Moore's 2007 film Sicko, because they knew what he was saying was true and would be hugely damaging to their financial interests if not discredited.

I encourage anyone interested in the health care debate to watch the full Moyers/Potter interview, excerpted above, or read the transcript.  Potter lives in Philadelphia, and I hope I have the chance to meet him someday and thank him for the work he is doing.

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Comments (20)

  1. The weak argument that the government will come between the patient and the doctor for health care choices is ironic when Cigna came between doctors and patients with life or death issues.

    Some patients died because the suggested care from their doctor was denied by Cigna.17-year-old Nataline Sarkisyan comes to mind when she died awaiting a liver transplant that was initialy denied by Cigna and approved hours before she died after much negative publicity.

     

     

    Posted by Pete Coyotl on 08/01/2009 @ 11:02AM PT

  2. Cherokee Fred Jesus

    People it is up to us! Either we allow our representatives to continue to accept millions from lobbyist and voting their best interest. Totally disregarding what is best for the people and the country. We need universal health care for all and leave the for profit insurance industry out of the equation...

    CFJ

    Posted by Cherokee Fred Jesus on 08/01/2009 @ 06:09PM PT

  3. Cherokee Fred Jesus

    Just like the war on drugs money wasted supporting an industry that pays our representatives. To insure they (our reps) continue to vote for and fund the war on US. Destroying millions ever year and wasting billions as long as they get their kick back. They do not care about us or our kids they jail and enslave and destroy...

    CFJ

    Posted by Cherokee Fred Jesus on 08/01/2009 @ 06:16PM PT

  4. leave the for profit insurance industry out of the equation...

    Great interview! I agree with Pete and Fred.  According to polls, the American people support a single-payer system health care option.  This should be a human right, not a profit-making enterprise.  I was similarly moved by Amy Goodman's interview with Wendell Potter on DemocracyNow a little while back.

      http://www.democracynow.org/2009/7/16/former_insurance_exec_wendell_porter

    Posted by a d on 08/01/2009 @ 06:41PM PT

  5. L.S. hope

    I agree, we need universal health care. Although, I don't want government ran health care.They already have their hands  in every aspect of our lives. They use our incomes, race, gender, and political views, to classify us. They know what cars we drive, the number of children we have, if we are single or married. Do you really want them knowing the results of an S.T.D. test?

      Remember, this is the same government that wire tapped our phones, dumped agent orange on its own soldiers, and gave millionaires bail-out money. Better yet; since when does our government give a dang about the people? It makes no since at all. They are letting people in our country go hungry, but they want to give them health care.

      Maybe they want to track the results of the,"Guinea-pig experiments, " they are letting GM food companies preform on us, without our consent or knowledge. Who knows, but I will say," this has nothing to do with health care." It's a smoke screen, that will be used against us. (I have no health insurance at the moment, so I'm not just saying this because I have coverage.)

      

    Posted by L.S. hope on 08/02/2009 @ 02:48AM PT

  6. Dave Bennion

    I agree, we need universal health care. Although, I don't want government ran health care.

    You've been snowed by the industry misinformation that Wendell Potter and his CIGNA coworkers used to feed politicians.  The plans pending in Congress do not propose government-run healthcare like the UK's NHS, what is proposed is government-run insurance like virtually every other industrialized country has in place.  Single-payer is not currently on the table.  A lot of people are confused about what is going on--it's a confusing issue.  It doesn't help that we have GOP and Blue Dogs promoting the industry's lies that then show up in blog comments and opinion polls.  The fact that you have some uninsured people themselves like L.S. fighting against reform means the industry is doing a good job.

    Posted by Dave Bennion on 08/02/2009 @ 06:43AM PT

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  7. L.S. hope

    "Confusing issue," is an understatement. From everything I have read, seen, heard; our Government doesn't seem to be able to address this issue with strait-forward answers. Obama is saying,"this year, all Americans will have health care coverage." Really? Because I have yet to receive any information, detailing the coverage that will be provided me. Nor, have I received a coverage package; addressing my individual needs, or what doctor I would prefer. They have thrown around everything from voucher programs, to government employed doctors. From where I stand, it looks like universal health care is up in the air.

      Mr. Bennion, I thought you, of all people would have seen the underlying issues, that our government has yet to address. More so, the bias this will create, in regards to race, religion, and gender.

    For example: There is a t.v. program, about a family that has 18 children.(Maybe 19, who knows.) Under a universal health care system, we would all be responsible to pay for this couples choice, to keep having children. Our government has also said, they should give healthy people incentives, for being healthy. What do these incentives consist of: tax breaks, gym memberships? Does this mean a healthy person, with a terminal illness, will be eligible for the incentives? Mr. Bennion, I could go on all day with questions that have been left answered.

       Most people are worried about higher taxes. I'm okay with paying for something that will benefit me, as well as everyone else. I just want to know how much it will cost, so I can prepare financially. Although, I don't think the rich, or the people whom have coverage, will be this easy to convince.

     I just hope, before they impliment this expensive bill, they have all their ducks in a row. If not; their lack of planning will not only cost Americans a mass amount of money, but possible lives.

    Posted by L.S. hope on 08/02/2009 @ 01:11PM PT

  8. Dave Bennion

    our Government doesn't seem to be able to address this issue with strait-forward answers.

    While there isn't a final bill yet and those that have been proposed will likely be modified, the information is available for taxpayers to review.

    Here's the House bill: http://edlabor.house.gov/blog/2009/07/americas-affordable-health-choices-act.shtml

    My co-blogger Tim Foley did a good run down of what the bill would actually look like to an uninsured person making $45K: http://healthcare.change.org/blog/view/whats_in_it_for_me_at_45000_a_year

    The current system doesn't work very well for a lot of people.  The U.S. pays more for health care than anyone else with lower rates of patient satisfaction and worse health outcomes than most industrialized countries.

    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_spe_per_per-health-spending-per-person

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate

    (U.S. has an infant mortality rate comparable to that of Croatia, Cyprus, or Poland.)

    http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=ten_reasons_why_american_health_care_is_so_bad

    But industry groups in conjunction with conservative politicians have managed to block reform for decades now, in part by lying about what proposed reforms would do and sowing confusion about the issues. 

    Anyone with access to the internet is better able now to find out what is true and what is false than in the past.  Pleading ignorance about the issues while repeating misinformation from industry groups will not get you very far in a debate about facts and concrete policy proposals.  Equip yourself: study the issues.

    Posted by Dave Bennion on 08/02/2009 @ 02:21PM PT

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  9. L.S. hope

    Mr. Bennion, pleading ignorance is not what I'm doing. I have read much of my info. on the Internet. I also read, on this site, certain Democrats will refuse to support a universal health care bill, that will cover abortion. You said yourself, this wouldn't be a government ran system. Well, if a political party is deciding what procedures should be covered, what would you call it then?

    Posted by L.S. hope on 08/02/2009 @ 10:57PM PT

  10. Dave Bennion

    In some countries, the government owns and manages the hospitals, pays doctors' salaries directly, and operates every step in the process of delivering medical care.  This is a what I mean and what is commonly understood as "government run health care." The UK's NHS would be an example.

    On the other hand, you have systems where the government runs a medical insurance plan but private doctors and hospitals provide the medical care.  Medicare in the U.S. is an example of this type of system.

    This is a fundamental distinction, and it's hard to discuss a complex issue with someone who doesn't grasp the basics first.  In another thread for example, how can you discuss T visas and immigration reform with someone who doesn't know that you have to get a green card before you can become a citizen?  Sometimes education has to happen before a policy discussion can take place.

    Posted by Dave Bennion on 08/03/2009 @ 05:06AM PT

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  11. L.S., I think it would help to read what Wendell Potter had to say about the Canadian single-payer system, which is more like our Medicare program, as Dave mentioned:

    AMY GOODMAN: What do you think of single payer? And first, explain it, as you understand it. I think that’s critical, because most people don’t even understand the idea of government-paid-for healthcare. And compare it to a public plan. And then, where do you see us going now, and where do you think we have to go?

    WENDELL POTTER: Yeah, I think one of the ways for people to understand how a single-payer system works is to look at our Medicare program, which is a single-payer program. The government runs the program. So we have a very popular government-run program in this country, and have since the 1960s. And it has been—it has made enormous difference in the lives of people who are elderly and disabled. And, in fact, the satisfaction ratings of people who are enrolled in Medicare—and these are people who are elderly and disabled, who have a much greater chance of needing care than people who are younger and who are enrolled in private plans—the satisfaction ratings of people in Medicare is higher than it is for people who are in private plans.

    In Canada, their system there is called Medicare, and it is a system that essentially has taken our Medicare program and expanded it to include or be available to all their citizens. And in Canada—it’s probably the ultimate single-payer system—there are no private insurance companies that compete for business. In the UK and some other countries in Europe, there are government-run programs, but some allow insurance companies to operate. So there are different kinds of government-run programs or programs that are essentially financed largely by the government.

    But even in a single-payer system like in Canada and our own Medicare system, the care is delivered by the private sector, by doctors and nurses who are in private practice and by private hospitals. So it is not a government takeover, as some in the industry and its allies would like us to believe. It is not a government takeover of the healthcare system, by any means. In a single-payer system, doctors and nurses and hospitals deliver the care. And people have a broad choice; they’re not restricted to certain doctors and nurses and hospitals.

    AMY GOODMAN: Are you for single-payer healthcare in this country?

    WENDELL POTTER: It works in Canada. There are people in Canada—I think the satisfaction ratings in Canada, people are much happier with their system there than Americans are here. In fact, more people in this country are uninsured than the entire population of Canada. And if you take into consideration the people who—the number of people who are underinsured now—and that is a number that is growing because of the new health plans that are being sold, these so-called consumer-directed plans that are really high-deductible plans—when you add those people in, there are more people who are either uninsured or underinsured than the entire population of the United Kingdom. So, you know, we are at a point where some fundamental reform is absolutely necessary. We can’t let another opportunity go. We can’t go another fifteen years before we have some meaningful reform.

    http://www.democracynow.org/2009/7/16/former_insurance_exec_wendell_porter

    Posted by a d on 08/03/2009 @ 03:20PM PT

  12. L.S. hope

    Your hostility toward me is obvious, Mr. Bennion. I wasn't talking about T-visas, and green cards. Nor, am I aware of the reference that you make to the prior post.

     When I was 16 years old, I got pregnant. My Father, the harsh Catholic that he was, kicked me out of our house. He also, forbid my Mother from removing me from their insurance. The obvious problem, in the 90's, was finding a way to get health care. My parent-provided insurance, made it impossible for me to use any government aid- medical programs, and their insurance wouldn't cover a teenage pregnancy.

      Mr. Benion, I did not intend to bait you with a loaded question. The reason I wanted to bring the,"abortion issue," to your attention, was because I realize how many immigrants are Catholic. I also realize, that some find themselves pregnant at a young age, like myself. I would much rather see, anyone, immigrant or non, not have to struggle the way I have. So, when you let a political party,(out of their own personal beliefs,) determine coverage on a universal health care bill, you might be able to understand, why I am such a sceptic on this matter.

     I did graduate high-school, early, at that. I worked a low paying job, paid rent, obtained a certificate-degree, all before I was 20. Although I am still going to school, my major is entomology; I would like to point out, I have never once, applied for state-aid, or any low-income assistance. I have faith in humanity enough to say,"if I can do it, anyone can."

     I just really find it hard to believe, that you've labeled me ignorant, and suggested that I cannot grasp this concept. You , who at one time, earned a living, exploiting peoples ignorance of our laws. I may not hail from a family of privilege, Mr. Bennion, but I do have substance. My son is now 10 years old, and is an awesome athlete, and strait "A" student. We may be poor, by American standards, in regards to tangible/materialistic things; moral standards, we have plenty. 

     

    Posted by L.S. hope on 08/03/2009 @ 06:22PM PT

  13. Dave Bennion

    Thank you for sharing your story.  I wish you had had access to health care in the 1990s, I wish you and my siblings and their families had better access to it now.  My family lived in a trailer park for a time when I was growing up, and we qualified for free or reduced-cost lunch in elementary school in Houston.  In some ways I've been privileged, in others not.

    I'm not sure what you mean by "You , who at one time, earned a living, exploiting peoples ignorance of our laws."  I work at a nonprofit in Philly--my clients are mostly low-income immigrants and their U.S. citizen family members.  I'm familiar with immigrants and the Catholic Church--I worked as an immigration attorney for the Diocese of Brooklyn and Queens for two years.

    My reference to T visas and immigration reform was to Ms. Nunes's comments on another thread.

    I tend to get prickly when commenters come to the blog with a restrictionist perspective and make factual misstatements.  I think on any blog where someone brings a conflicting perspective, they can expect factual claims to be scrutinized for accuracy and arguments challenged more robustly than if they weren't challenging the blogger and that blog's particular community.  I don't comment at ALIPAC or VDare or what have you, but if I did, I would make certain that any assertions I made could stand up to scrutiny.  When claims are well-sourced and arguments vigorously contested, it can lead to a better understanding of the issue on both sides.  This approximates the adversarial system in court.  For example, I think Liquid's critiques of my "Illegal Immigrant is the Real Euphemism" post made it a stronger post (tho I'm sure he'd disagree).  And I wrote it knowing he or others would be going over it with a fine-tooth comb, which is why it took me a long time to write.

    In short: if you come to this blog challenging pro-migrant positions (or in this case, a pro-reform health care argument), expect to be challenged.  That is the way the blogosphere works.

    Posted by Dave Bennion on 08/03/2009 @ 07:20PM PT

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  14. L.S. hope

     I agree, Mr. Bennion. Although, when I come to this, "blogosphere," I strive to treat your commentary with respect. I have more than once disagreed, and agreed with their views. Although, I have never resorted to name calling, or disregarded their comments, in a rude manor. I always address them with a proper title, if I'm able to, and, take into account their perspectives.

     I live in an area of the U.S. that has a large number of immigrants/undocumented immigrants. This has afforded me, the ability to see the validity, and contributions, as well as the down-falls, of immigration. In your post, you are quick to point out the unfairness, injustice, and struggles, you/they face on a daily basis. You also bring awareness, to the successes many immigrants have achieved, and highly regarded roles, they will play in America's future. That's great.

      Realistically, there are many, not so good immigrants, crossing our borders on a daily basis. So, without looking bias, how do you pick out the good from the bad? (You can't.)

     I know I have never trivialized the role you play, in our immigration system. I have suggested, probably more than once, that your heart seems to guide you through this cause. For me, all heart is lost, when dealing with our Government. (The, "exploitation comment," was presumptuous on my part. Sorry for that.)

    Ms. Annalisa, I did read you post earlier. I will definitely take a closer look.

    Posted by L.S. hope on 08/03/2009 @ 09:35PM PT

  15. Reply to thread
  16. Lara Nunes

    Dave said : In another thread for example, how can you discuss T visas and immigration reform with someone who doesn't know that you have to get a green card before you can become a citizen? 

    Anyone who can think knows this, some americans knows this.

     What Illegals dont understand is just because those who applied for a green card through an american citizen family  member (who spondsored them )and thinks they can come to USA and wait for it too be approved, you are still considered an illegal (not an Immigrant) and plus your application for the green card or Visa will be revoked.

    You can check that information here

     Can my relative wait in the United States until he or she can become a permanent resident?

    http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/B1eng.pdf

     Immigrating to the United States on a VISA

    http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/immigrants_1340.html

    Immigration reform is means to change into an improved form or condition, by amending or removing faults or abuses.In the political sense,Immigration reform discussions can be general enough to include promoted, expanded, or open immigration as well as the aspect of reducing or eliminating immigration altogether.

    Posted by Lara Nunes on 08/03/2009 @ 01:50PM PT

  17. Lara Nunes

     People between the ages of 35 and 50 who are healthy and poor and are US citizens, can not get help by the goverment. what a bout a plan for them... this signal plan is a sham in my eyes, because not all of us americans want to be controlled by the goverment....

    I will stick to my ways, i pay my medical bills $1.00 a month, if the medical bill people dont accept it, well I dont have to pay...

    its easy and simple.

    Posted by Lara Nunes on 08/03/2009 @ 04:02PM PT

  18. Gary Stein

    Is this where the action is now?  Hi Dave, ana lisa, lara and newbies.  no, nobody reads what the others ask them to, for instance, this has been on my web site SteinforGoober-ner since at least as long as i've been going back and forth with aforementioned's....

    after I put a link to Bill Moyers, I said this...

    "....I’m back.  A little different than posting you-tubes of pop culture like on page 2?…..this is 36 minutes and 30 seconds you must see, as I just did.  Just as compelling as the show on single payer last May.  Amusing to me, was at the end when Wendall Wilkins the former health care industry insurance executive uses the term status quo, the term I used two lines in on the Home Page with the same negative context. 

    As much as I’d like to see what Mr. Moyers and Mr. Wilkins advocate go forward, (reform: a dirty word), we know it’s not going to happen.  Those two know it, and say as much at the end.  Gridlock.."

    http://www.steinforgovernor.com/TheGov_s_Journal.html

    Dave, ana lisa asked me if i noticed i'm not winning any converts (as if she and you are?), have you noticed that it's the same old- same old names doing all the discussing on change.org?  I owe it to the others to least direct them here.  Dave lets break out of the funk and go to Mexico.  What do you say?  You'll have plenty of new original material to write about without relying on reruns of Bill Moyers.  I even beat you to it, saw both sets of stories on PBS before you.

    Posted by Gary Stein on 08/03/2009 @ 04:44PM PT

  19. Here's a video for you Gary...on the intersection between the immigration and health care issue (that is, if you care to get serious by actually addressing the topic at hand):

    http://video.nytimes.com/video/2008/08/03/us/1194817111333/the-deportation-of-luis-jimenez.html

    Posted by a d on 08/04/2009 @ 11:27AM PT

  20. Reply to thread
  21. Lara Nunes

    Dave I think it is sad, you being an american and think Illegals should get a free ride to this country.... I am wondering are you harboring any illegals ?

    The simple fact is this country has Laws and if you knew anything.. breaking those Laws makes them illegal and show not get a free pass to this country....  I know my laws, just because you are a lawyer doesnt mean you follow these laws, I know in USA there are alot of crooked lawyers who breaks alot of rules.. maybe we need to deport them too.

    The information came from the goverment... why dont you check it out instead of making false claims. 

    Posted by Lara Nunes on 08/03/2009 @ 07:46PM PT

  22. Gary Stein

    Ms. Nunes can i answer the question you posed to Dave about harboring illegals?  I did for 5 years and I'm glad I did.  I'll answer the question I"ve been asking Dave and ana lisa for 2 weeks now and that's, are you for open borders.  Gary Stein: answer no.  Meanwhile a lady who's children I'm pictured with on the, hmmmmm, yokel news.com is probably attempting to cross the border as we speak.  Her name is Letty and not that it matters, but she's vivacious, funny, hardworking, has panache for the right clothes (6 minutes left on my library time, is panache the proper word).....it's hard to imagine some one like that crossing the desert in August.

    Posted by Gary Stein on 08/07/2009 @ 01:13PM PT

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Dave Bennion

David is an attorney in Philadelphia, PA, where he helps immigrants to the U.S. navigate the complex immigration legal system. Views he expresses at change.org are his alone and don't represent the views or opinions of his employer, Nationalities Service Center. The information contained on this site is intended for educational and advocacy purposes only.

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