Haven't been to my home country since I was brought here. I cannot answer that question since I am not very familiar with the higher educational system there.

If the US government was to ask me to go back to my own country, I'll have to go back. My question to you is, Do YOU, as a citizen of the US, Want me to go back to where I came from?

Yes, If you felt like I am taking your job position or whatever, you may argue that I should go back. After all, this is YOUR country. You defend your country. I'm fine with that but aren't you losing your tax money?

Your tax money has already funded my education for last 4 years. actually not yours, the Californians but the immigrants are throughout the whole country. If I go back to my own country, they'll pay me BIG time and hire me in a blink of an eye but if ALL the undocumented students in California go back to their home countries, California and other states will lose billions of dollars. remember the money was already used to invest in young kids no matter where they came from.

now, I go back to my country and start finding cures or earn prizes or whatever. Does that profit MY country or Yours? Probably not the US because you guys are kicking me out.

trust me, my home country will LOVE me but do I really care?

Let me ask you one more thing. Can YOU save a person's life? Can you EVER contribute back to the community as much as I have in the last couple of years I've been here?

IF a citizen who has a better GPA than I do, does better biochemistry than I do, gets higher MCAT scores than I do, tells me that I don't belong there, then I really do not have an arguement because clearly that person qualifies more than I do to be a doctor. at UCLA we have tons of smart kids competing each other. they LOVE competetion and guess what, they haven't told me to go back yet. people who are smarter than me haven't told me to go back because we can work together and compete each other for the right cause.

kick me out, or let me stay.

YOU decide

Of course, I favor you going back.  I would say this is out of common courtesy.  

In a way this is a form of foreign aid and spreading of goodwill for the US.  You've learned, you've been educated, now become an evangelist and spread those gifts back to your country.   You haven't been invited here; you are the unwelcome guest.  

Sure, people are nice and friendly - to your face -, but will one of these people "sponsor" you, or better yet "adopt" you as their child, or "marry" you, or pay for a lawyer for you, or petition your state's senator to pass a special act of Congress to keep you here.  If the alien were Jesus Christ or Einstein, the Congress would jump to it.  (Actually, I believe the last person to receive US citizenship by an act of Congress was Winston Churchill).

You are not taking my job - as far as I know.  But there are millions of Americans who don't have an alternate nationality.  These people need to be embraced in the bosom of the nation.  These need  to get priority in training and jobs - not because they are the smartest - or the best - but because they are or own and have no one else to turn to, and we really must invest in our own.

So, I really think you should go home. 

start investing in your own, by buying all American cars. Until every road is full of American cars, then you invest in your own. you know, to try and keep your fellow Americans with work at GM, and stop complaining that Obama bails out the car companies, or that he wants every American to have healthcare, or that he wants every American to afford their education. when you agree and do all those things, THEN you are an American, otherwise; your just someone who happen to be born here.

Americans move to other countries all the time, in search for a better life.

js,

I don't necessarily share Alex's point of view.  His opinions, though wacky,  are his and his alone.

I agree that Americans do live abroad, but they do so legally.

Right. I wasn't invited here and yeah investing in your own sounds very nice but why are American private Universities offering me merit based scholarships? why are they offering me thousands of dollars just to be one of their students?  

Why is America still recruiting scientists and engineers from all over the world?

look I don't have anything against American Citizens. They are great people and majority of my closest friends and college friends are American Citizens. Thanks but I can't be adopted because I'm 22. Marriage proposals had been offered to me by the CITIZENS.

I may not have all the rights you have but I have certain things that You may not Have. they are FRIENDS AND ALLIES. THEY ARE ALL CITIZENS.

You may not like it but I have my friends and family here. If you don't agree with the Majority of people, then why don't you leave and start your own? I'll be here and loved by the citizens. I'll be here saving people's lives. I'll be here looking for cures to diseases. I'll be here HELPING American Citizens. I'll be here helping homeless people (They are Citizens too).

You should leave

You haven't been invited here; you are the unwelcome guest.

He's welcome as far as I'm concerned, and my vote counts as much as yours.

Sure, people are nice and friendly - to your face -, but will one of these people "sponsor" you, or better yet "adopt" you as their child, or "marry" you, or pay for a lawyer for you, or petition your state's senator to pass a special act of Congress to keep you here.

Some people are not very friendly ... I'm sure JS has met a lot of people just like you, Kurt.  None of the options you've presented are likely to be viable:

(1) an adoption has to be completed before the child turns 16 and can't be done "just for the papers"
(2) USCIS really takes a dim view of sham marriages and will refer the applicant to immigration court and charge him/her with misrepresentation if they believe it's a sham marriage.  It's a good way to get deported.
(3) lawyers can't make new laws, much as we might like to
(4) private bills are rarely introduced and almost never passed

But the myth that it's somehow a lack of diligence that is keeping 12 million in the shadows,  that there's a sensible way to leave and come back for those with demonstrable ties to the U.S., and reasonable ways to enter in the first place, are crucial elements of the restrictionist platform.  But, due largely to the influence of restrictionists in Congress since the 1980s, none of those things are actually true. 

doh, stupid tags

You should leave


Think i wrote about this on another blog. trying to remember i used some colorful words.  well this proves my point. 
We just want to work, we just want an educaiton...then  Americans should leave....I think i was called a name for my crazy views.  interesting. i hate being right.

jzsz;
It's wonderful people like yourself who make me proud to be an American.  Never stop striving and dreaming.  You are the future of our nation.

Wow, I have to say, I'm highly impressed Kurt. Very impressed...and  I mean it.  I may start listening to your side if you keep this up. (I didn't know you had it in your heart to be welcoming and kind to someone who is undocumened.  You rock, Kurt :-)

i dont think thats the real Kurt, i think someone hacked on hes computer, or hes just really drunk

hmmm...yeah, I thought it was too good to be true.   If it is Kurt, he was probably just being sarcastic (sigh).

We are not the enemies here. AB-540 Students ARE NOT THE ENEMIES to this country. AB-540 Students are AS American AS any other citizens. Most of these AB-540 students GREW UP with Citizens. most of us all have friends that are citizens and we have our friends supporting us. The Real enemy here is the ignorance towards the issue and That is Exactly why the Education is so important.

Once the conservatives understand that we're not the enemies, then I think they can support something like the DREAM Act. Remember on CNN, Matias mentioned at the Republican students group at UCLA actually SUPPORT the DREAM Act?

only if we can convince everyone in this nation....

Dave, the next time I call Kurt a rock, please delete my comment. That was totally uncalled for!

If the US DID educate the whole world, do you think things like 9/11 would have happened?

speaking of EDUCATION, do you think BUSH was all that educated? is that why he was such a great president? a C-average student running the country, is THAT what you want?

it's better to educate people NOW then let them come back LATER and try to do something really stupid like terrorizing people or forming gangs and such.

You feel like you're losing your money by educating non-US citizens. think about it. if you educate people, you'll have less people trying to steal from each other. I wish I can write more and elaborate my argument but I have to go take my mid terms in Biological Chemistry so I can at least try to save cure diseases and save the world.

Peace out

jizzle shizzle,

I know you are trying to make humane point, it is the right thing, but I've spent alot of time listening to the oposition, and I got to tell you, the reason you gave them; dont really phaze them.

Entering illegally is a misdemeanor, in your case, and many like you; that misdemeanor doesnt count against you because you were under a young age. there is a reason a permanent record only sticks to individuals that are over a certain age.

As you spent time growing up in this country, unaware of how much your status will affect you; you realize it later on when you go on to apply for college, or maybe when you wantto start driving. by that time, you try to udjust your status now that your old enough to be responsible for yourself, but you cant. you cannot even marry a USC (real, not sham) because you did not enter legally. you want to return back and come here legally, but you are faced with a 10 year ban.

under current law, every illegal person must go through the due process and go infront of a judge to see if they are aligable for any relief (Women against torture, Isylum, etc). these undocumented people know that if they surrendered at ICE, they will never get to go infront of that judge to see if they can apply for relief.

someone can ask, "oh why would we give them a relief, they entered illegally"... but what happens is that when you are prosecuted in your home country, wether you are gay, you believe in a certain group, your political opinion, or you suffer abuse; you cannot wait for a visa that doesnt exist. theres no sutch thing as an isylum visa for you to apply for.

what happen with these kids is that some of them came here legally with their parents and applied for a relief, due to the burecratic delays, it took up to 3 years to go through a judge, and even more time in appeals and motions to reopen. Throughout all this time, these kids reached the age 21, witch means that even though their parents may be granted isylum, they will not. this is the the broken system we are talking about.

many cases have been denied by immigration judges, and have gone up to the federal courts were they have been overturned. theres alot abuse of power by these judges. it is a very complicated deal.

i hear all these people say "oh apply to come here legally", the only option to come here legally without having anyone to sponsor you in the United states, is the Visa lottery system. A system that is not much of a lottery, but its more like a "if you know someone on the inside, your good", that is why the number of people that get chosen is always from the same exact country; my country, Albania. A country that has a population of only 3 million, and yet beats every country when its chosen for the visa lottery system.

and to those immigrants who talk againt these kids, that say that "oh I came legally, why cant you"... understand one thing, that wether you came because of family unification or because you came for some other reason. know that those options didnt exist before. it hasnt even been a century that many people from Asia, from Latin America and from Europe; couldnt bring any family member here. Their grandparents those days had no means to come here either, the only ones who did were people who already were born here.

If the US DID educate the whole world, do you think things like 9/11 would have happened?

I don't quite get your point here.  I think if the US taught everyone in the world how to fly, then more 9/11's would happen.

speaking of EDUCATION, do you think BUSH was all that educated?

We've had a great many presidents who were not well-educated.  Reagan, LBJ, FDR, Truman, Cleveland.  Compared to presidents who were highly educated (Carter, Wilson,  ) they did quite remarkably well.

some of you here talk about some weird things that require a seperate thread on their own.

Undocumented students are not the only ones who benefit from the AB-540. Citizens can benefit from it too as long as they meet the criteria.

A natural born citizen born in Texas is brought to california at a young age and graduate from California high school or at least attend 3 years that person qualifies for in-state tuition. get your facts right.

no one pays for anyone's college. THEY the students do. Non profit organizations that offer scholarships dont get their money from tax payers. this isnt k-12.

Clearly what we need to do is repeal that misguided federal law.

Cue Palidan to weigh in on states' rights here ... 3, 2, 1 ... waiting, waiting ...

I agree that having a functional federal immigration system would be wonderful.  But the proposition that we can do by enforcement only, without adjusting the persistent gap between jobs and visas, is a chimera.  It has not worked even as we have ramped up enforcement again and again, leading me to believe it will never work unless we jettison our democracy for a totalitarian state. 

Some people think that would be worth the cost, but I'm not one of them.

Sofia, in your opinion, how does the DREAM act deter future waves of illegals from coming to the United States?

sorry i posted a new comment instead of replying to the thread- its down there if u wanna read it tho :)

Are you serious? If you really believe people were not thinking about financial return when they decided to allow undocumented students to have an education...let me tell you, they were. Furthermore, they were thining that they would rather have an educated workforce than an underground economy like in many underdeveloped countr4ies. And I agree. But now by not fostering higher education in these students and allowing them to contribute all that they can to the US economy, we are shooting ourselves in the foot. These kids are bilingual, multicultural, talented, intelligent individuals who are so valuable to the US eocnomy. Why not use them to boost our economy?

And I don't know what you mean when you say the idea of spreading American values backfired. These students are not only America, they are patriotic. They have enlisted in the army to fight for our country. They have helped register thousands of voters during elections, even though they themselves are not permitted the right to vote. They celebrate the fourth of July every year alongside us. These DREAM students are trying to get a college education here in the US and against all odds they are succeeding, and all they want to do with their degree is give back to their communities HERE in the US.  Trust me when I say they are defintely spreading "American values and goodwill"- at least the good American values.

ps. Our immigration laws are broken.

Sofie

I don't trust you.

I don't think illegal children were afforded subsidized k-12 education with the idea that there would be any financial return.

Let's go to the source and take a look at the Supreme Court's stated rationale in Plyler v. Doe:

The majority also observed that denying the children in question a proper education would likely contribute to "the creation and perpetuation of a subclass of illiterates within our boundaries, surely adding to the problems and costs of unemployment, welfare, and crime."

Sounds to me like financial self-interest, among other things, was at work here.

All right, I think you are not going to change your mind on this so I'll leave one last comment.

I hope you meet one of these young adults that came here as children- that's what I said I meant in my previous comment, which you should understand if you understood the issue at hand and the DREAM Act. These are kids that were a few months old or 6 years old when they entered the US. They are young adults now, this is true, and they are succeeding in colleges like Stanford and Harvard and UC Berkeley. Not only are they succeeding, they are succeeding against all odds, overcoming obstacles you would not imagine. For instance, on top of not receiving any kind of financial aid (except for a few scholarships) many commute 4 hours each way to and from their house every day by bus because they cannot afford housing near their university and they cannot get a driver's license.

In response to all your claims, I didn't know you were looking for an exact description of the current bill. I was simply explaining the general requirements- which do hold true (30 yrs is close to 35 yrs and a high school diploma is the equivalent of GED!) If you had asked me, I could have gone and looked it up and copied & pasted it for you (which you could do as well.) However, the bills are still in committees so the exact language might change. But the general requirements, as I stated them, will remain the same.

I do not understand why you make these students sound like criminals that constantly "cover up their traces." Makes it sounds like a conspiracy theory- these students are not living in hiding and they are not covering anything up especially since they didn't do anything wrong. They are normal people with good values and look nothing like aliens by the way. They don't hide in closets either. They go to school, get good grades, play football and volleyball, and are involved in student government. They are at the top of their class and go on to prestigious universities. Please take the tim eto look up some of their stories. They might just make you cry a little.

Furthermore, thank you for bringing up a good point. How can we verify if these students have been here 5 years or more? Well, there are hospital records, school records, every time they went on a field trip, every time they got a medical shot, bank records- point is there are a lot of ways to prove you live in the US (and please don't say that it'll be easy to forge this- these are legitimate records that come from legitimate institutions such as hospitals and banks and schools that would not be easily forged). Moreover, there would be no meed to "check their bqackground in their home country"! Most of these students were only in their "home" country for their first years of life! They have no history there- all their memories are here.

Lastly and finally, I agree let's correct the system. Please tell me how. People and interest groups have been debating how to fix the system for eyars and years and we have not gotten anywhere. Meanwhile, these children have grown up into young adults and have paid the price. Now, they have university degrees and cannot use them to contribute even more back into the economy. We are wasting valuable talent and we have not provided them any solution whatsoever. If we could have immigration reform now, I would be the first to jump on board. But the reality is that we are not going to settle that matter overnight. However, the DREAM Act is here. The DREAM Act has bipartisan support. The DREAM Act has set requirements and it has a real chance of passing. This is why we need the DREAM ACT now and immigration reform next. But like I said, I do wish we could have immigration reform now.

Oh, and I am not asking you to trust me. Trust the facts, and please do research of your own. But please do not listen to biased organizations that have stront anti-immigrant sentiment or pro-immigration sentiment. Look at the facts and I think you'll find the DREAM is not only the right thing to do, but the smart thing to do.

Please, I encourage you all to get the facts. This is an important issue that would have an immense positive impact on the lives of these students and on the economy of the US. There are many myths that surround this issue (i.e. Undocumented people do not pay taxes- they do!)

So thanks for you time and thanks for reading this if you actually go to the bottom haha. Have a nice day!

Where to begin ... let's see:

Once an alien applies, he gets to wait and see if his application is accepted or rejected.  Meanwhile he is protected against deportation.  There is a huge chance for fraud in this respect.

Existing anti-fraud measures are quite strict, and should be adequate to deal with the questions raised here.  Meanwhile the savvy applicant will realize that committing immigration fraud will get him deported, and will wait for another path to legal status.  The unsavvy applicant will wind up getting deported.

GED is also acceptable - you forgot to mention this. 

You're proposing we create an additional distinction between GED and high school diploma for undocumented immigrants alone?  Age floor and ceiling are already in place.  This makes no sense.

To fulfill the 5 years presence in the US requirement, how do you determine when someone entered the US illegally?  There's no passport stamp.  More potential for fraud here.

Again, USCIS is well-practiced in dealing with this issue with respect to applications for LIFE/LULAC, registry, and 245(i).  The courts and BIA know how to deal with the date of entry question in those contexts plus asylum (one year deadline) and cancellation.  It's not 1987--the courts and the agencies have had years of practice at detecting and punishing fraud. 

How do you trace the background of someone who has been lived in hiding. and covering up their traces?

Have you heard of the marvelous new technique of matching the unique loops and whorls found on each person's fingers with those left on ink cards and electronic scanners each and every time someone is arrested in this country?  Presently, a comprehensive background fingerprint check of federal, state, and local criminal records is conducted before any immigration benefit at all is awarded, from a work permit renewal to a green card to citizenship.  The system is pretty thorough; I don't know why we would throw it out for the Dream Act.  Your assertion only makes sense if you assume that police exempt people they arrest from being fingerprinted if they tell them they are undocumented.  Trust me, they don't. 

It's even more difficult to check the person's background in his home country, where they have 12 year old soldiers on death squads, etc.

You're seriously suggesting that 15 year-olds and under have racked up serious criminal records in their countries of origin ... and that child soldiers should be punished here for being drafted into militias and subject to rape, torture, and other horrors in their country of birth.  Also, the number of former child soldiers among this population is miniscule.  Your arguments about children say a lot more about your worldview than they do about the Dream Act.  If this is a serious concern, just have people obtain criminal record checks from their home countries--probably won't turn up much though because most countries are not as eager to arrest and imprison children as we are here in the U.S.

But under what SSN?  What name?  How do you connect the person to the record.  These are John and Jane Does.

K-12 kids are generally not at school under false identities.  How do you train a 7-year-old to live like Jason Bourne at school?  It could only be done assuming suspension-of-disbelief levels of precociousness a la 6-year-old Ender Wiggin.

1. end birth citizenship 2. repeal cuban Adjustment act   3. end sanctuary city policies  4. implement eVerify  5. put predator drones on border and complete the fencing.  6. overturn Plyler-Doe.  7. end this 'don't ask, don't tell' approach.

1, 5, and 6 are fringe positions.  2 can't be done while the Castros are in charge ... might be politically possible post-Castro only after we dismantle the embargo and tone down the anachronistic Cold War rhetoric against a tiny impoverished country. 

3 won't work unless (a) you get someone like Ron Paul or Dick Cheney into the White House, which is never going to happen, or (b) you pass immigration reform such that the concept itself becomes obsolete.  (Granted, the extent to which bona fide sanctuary obtains in so-called Sanctuary Cities is pretty limited in most cases.  It's false advertising here in Philly, often in NYC as well.)

4 seems likely to pass in some formulation at some point.

7 may have been true in 1980 or 1990, but it's not true today.  Also what would you propose, that undocumented immigrants walk around with stars of David on them so the government can round them up and deport them?

It's not Castro who is blocking the repeal of the Cuban Adj Act, it is . . . the children of Batista in our Congress.

Clearly.  I wasn't suggesting otherwise.  But once the Castros are gone, it will be harder for the old guard to maintain its headlock on Cuba policy.

Well I mean, Johns Hopkins does sound a little intimidating. Their medical program recently outranked Harvard's.

Top neurosurgeon in the nation used to be an illegal migrant worker. Isn't that something?

you wanna kick out all the undocumented immigrants. try telling that to all the citizens that this guy has saved in his entire career. hurry, your time is running. he's probably saving another citizen's life right now.

Maybe we should stop aborting fetuses - one might grow up and find the cure for cancer?

Maybe we should eating chicken - one might grow up and find the cure for cancer? 

Maybe we should stop shredding cabbages - one might grow up and find the cure for cancer? 

Maybe we should stop executing murderers - one might grow up and find the cure for cancer? 

Well at least a chicken is more competent than you are.

At least the chicken is not going to try and b.s. me.

No one needs to b.s. you, Kurt...you b.s. yourself!  You're so good at it, you should write a thriller. Look...you've just concocted a conspiracy of k-12 kids to pass themselves off under false identities in order to secure a free education (never mind about Pyler v. Doe)!  Wow, I'm impressed.  To think, I was searching sites like ALIPAC and Stormfront (ew!) for a good conspiracy theory to pep up my fiction.  Next time I will just ask Kurt ;-)